USA Visas Merged Thread

[mattoez]

Hi guys,
First post, but I saw some awesome info here while browsing so I thought i'd share my little predicament.
ABout two weeks ago I was charged with the summary offence of 'offensive behaviour'. Basically a policeman told me to go home(it was 3am and I was quite drunk after a wedding', and I replied with a string of obscenities which would make a sailor blush.
I am scheduled in court for the 26th June, and plan to plead guilty. I am assuming I will recieve a conviction and criminal record for this, and am now in the fun spot of travelling to the US.
The holiday and tickets were already booked and paid, before the offence was committed, and a prepraid ticket to the value of $10 000 USD into a poker tournament.
I have read alot of posts on this topic, and just have a few last questions. My court date is 26.06.07, and we arrive in america on 03/07/07. Would the charge of even been processed this quickly. And the second question is could I enter the US on my UK passport(I was born in UK,got australian citizenship thorugh parents), and therefore avoid all problems as I have no criminal record in the UK>??
Thanks alot guys for any info or thoughts you have.
Matt

[Dave Noble]

You would be, imo, unwise to take the risk; if you have been arrested/convicted then the safest bet would be to call the US Embassy and ask whether you need to get a visa or whether entering on a Visa Waiver is ok. If thje former, then apply for a visa

I would be surprised if they were to refuse a visa , but to turn up and risk being refused entry to the country seems a foolish risk. You have over a month which should be time enough to obtain a visa if necessary

Dave

[alect]

As Dave points out, what you propose may work just fine (ie there's no way the US authorities could discover your conviction in time), but the risks are high. What you would be doing is misrepresenting to the US government (ie an answer on the I94) and if you ever were discovered to have done so later, there could be grave consequences (incl being barred from the US in the future).

[IainF]

The best advice I can offer is to get yourself a solicitor ASAP.
Yes, it will cost you some money, but the ramifications are beyond that of just travelling to the USA.

Think of future jobs, where a criminal record screening may occur.

Not to be the bearer of bad tiding, but you should treat this very seriously, and offfer the court (upon your legal representatives' advice) your most heartfelt apology and request that no conviction be recorded, due to future impairment of opportunities.

Go and find the best criminal (not commercial, family or conveyancing) solicitor you can get.. and if need be, go get a barrister as well.


Better get a lawyer, son... better be a real good one....
(apologies to the Cruel Sea for theft of lyrics)

If you behave in a manner that shows you are very sorry, then you "may" come away with a reasonable outcome.

As a thought, perhaps writing a letter to the person you let loose at, offerering an apology may help a lot in court.

Cheers
IainF

CAVEAT; I am not a lawyer, never done any legal training, have not ever been arrested, but once went out with a cop......

[Maca44]

Some people might say to just run the risk, and I know of a few who even have convictions for minor summary street offences. About three years ago a friend was charged with assault outside a hotel, and despite his pleading of inocence from the onset, the charges were withdrawn two days later after further witnesses came forward and they arrested the right person.

Now, according to the Visa Waiver Program my friend would have problems entering the USA, as the Visa Waiver Program states you are unable to enter the USA under that program if you have been "arrested", so being convicted etc does not come into it. Even if you pleaded not guilty simply to get an adjournment for several months it still does not allow you to enter because of your arrest.

[kyle]

Some people might say to just run the risk, and I know of a few who even have convictions for minor summary street offences. About three years ago a friend was charged with assault outside a hotel, and despite his pleading of inocence from the onset, the charges were withdrawn two days later after further witnesses came forward and they arrested the right person.

Now, according to the Visa Waiver Program my friend would have problems entering the USA, as the Visa Waiver Program states you are unable to enter the USA under that program if you have been "arrested", so being convicted etc does not come into it. Even if you pleaded not guilty simply to get an adjournment for several months it still does not allow you to enter because of your arrest.

I just read the requirements of the VWP, but couldn't find any mention of 'arrest'

[Dave Noble]

I just read the requirements of the VWP, but couldn't find any mention of 'arrest'

On the Visa Waiver Form (I94W) it specifically asks "have you ever been arrested or convicted...."

and to contact the American Embassy BEFORE you travel to the US if you have.

The offence may well be one which will have little effect on your ability to enter the US and you may even be eligable to enter on the VW, but check with the US Embassy on how to proceed. If you don't and you did get deported, that could have a bigger impact trying to go places than the crime itself

Dave

[serfty]

The "arrested or convicted" relates to the following:

• ... for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude...
• ... violation related to a controlled substance
• ... two or more offenses for which the aggregate sentence to confinement was five years or more

Here is the full text:

Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude or a violation related to a controlled substance; or been arrested or convicted for two or more offenses for which the aggregate sentence to confinement was five years or more; or been a controlled substance trafficker; or are you seeking to engage in criminal or immoral activities ...

It really comes down to an interpretation of the meaning of "moral turpitude".

See this post: VISA WAIVER PROGRAM TO USA

[Dave Noble]

It really comes down to an interpretation of the meaning of "moral turpitude".

See this post: VISA WAIVER PROGRAM TO USA

Indeed. But since moral turpitude covers quite a wide range, with any arrest I would recommend checking with the Embassy; if they say that it is ok and that use of a VW is acceptable then no harm done ( just a bit of time wasted checking ) or if they say that it does require a visa then go with it

So many things come under moral turpitude

Dave

[simongr]

And even searching for a definition of moral turpitude doesnt make it clearer:

Answers.com says this:

A phrase used in criminal law to describe conduct that is considered contrary to community standards of justice, honesty, or good morals.

Crimes involving moral turpitude have an inherent quality of baseness, vileness, or depravity with respect to a person's duty to another or to society in general. Examples include rape, forgery, robbery, and solicitation by prostitutes.

I personally think it is vile to serve a steak any more cooked than medium rare but people have their own personal standards

However a little more exploration gives us this from Wiktionary

These two quotes not only reflect the severity of the offence but also that it is not just the crimes above (so my steak analogy might sneak in).

Quotations
1836 The Punishment of Death: A Selection of Articles from the Morning Herald
Here we see that both Lord TENTERDEN and Lord WYNFORD apply the test of moral turpitude to crime when considering the degree of punishment that ought to be annexed to it.
1998 Charles Jeszeck - Child Labor in Agriculture
In fact, one view expressed at the time was that work on the farm was free from the moral turpitude of city sweatshops and that farm labor taught children valuable lessons and skills