Tiger Airways trip report #2

[Platy]

We have always said that Qantas is our main competitor which is why we introduced Velocity, The Lounge, live2air, tiering for Velocity, and soon Premium Economy. We compete on value against Qantas, not on price against Jetstar & Tigger.

Hi Dave, for what it's worth I run a small business and decide my own travel. I have used DJ, JQ and QF domestically. The lounges and tiered FF scheme are big steps forward for DJ, but still some things lack if I am to take DJ seriously (which frankly I don't).

The last flight I took with DJ (BNE-ROK) annoyed me intensely - the cabin crew made a joke out of the safety demonstration. I regarded this as stupid and unprofessional. I don't take kindly to people making a joke out of my safety, thanks. I don't mind crew trying to make the flight comfortable, enjoyable, fun, but some of your staff are clearly too immature (and/or badly trained perhaps) to know when and how to draw the line. Bye bye DJ - I've never flown with them since.

(Incidentally, in some airports the ground safety standards of JQ absolutely stink, but that's another story.)

Secondly, although I am extremely frustrated at the declining standards of customer service with QF, ridiculous J class pricing and the intransigent arrogance their senior management show customers and staff alike, I am still unlikely to churn to DJ.

One big reason is the lack of evolution in fully dovetailing the Virgin Blue FF scheme with any other of the international airlines. I want a seemless domestic/international FF scheme, with, for example, inter-changeable status credit earn (say) on Emirates or Virgin Atlantic with DJ, or better still joining Star Alliance. Meanwhile I get that from QF/OneWorld and like many others put up with (actually quite alot) of "BS" and poor service in exchange for the benefits.

I am personally unlikely to fly Tiger, but think you are fooling yourself if you believe that you won't lose some of your market share - admittedly maybe not your business clientele (which may be where you biggest profit margin lies) and perhaps Tiger will help to expand the market itself through aggressive pricing and novel airport usage.

It is a personal perception that QF have failed miserably to turn the knife into DJ as far as the business clientele is concerned, by letting their service standards fall instead of being determined to develop and maintain their product to define a demonstrable product differentiation compared to DJ (which would relate to perceptions of "value") - possibly because they have been so obsessed with their favourite child JQ. The QPs are a zoo, the 767s tired, etc, not to mention the absolute farce that is BNE check in. One pithy example is that a J class passenger on QF now has to pay a $10 fee to change what is supposed a fully flexible fare.

If QF decided to take its product seriously again I think it might be DJ that is caught out in no mans land, neither a LCC and neither a fully optioned full service carrier, but you might be lucky as the QF managers focus on the Tiger vs Deathstar battle and continue to ignore their core brand (madness).

[straitman]

Hi Dave, for what it's worth I run a small business and decide my own travel. I have used DJ, JQ and QF domestically. The lounges and tiered FF scheme are big steps forward for DJ, but still some things lack if I am to take DJ seriously (which frankly I don't).

The last flight I took with DJ (BNE-ROK) annoyed me intensely - the cabin crew made a joke out of the safety demonstration. I regarded this as stupid and unprofessional. I don't take kindly to people making a joke out of my safety, thanks. I don't mind crew trying to make the flight comfortable, enjoyable, fun, but some of your staff are clearly too immature (and/or badly trained perhaps) to know when and how to draw the line. Bye bye DJ - I've never flown with them since.

(Incidentally, in some airports the ground safety standards of JQ absolutely stink, but that's another story.)

Secondly, although I am extremely frustrated at the declining standards of customer service with QF, ridiculous J class pricing and the intransigent arrogance their senior management show customers and staff alike, I am still unlikely to churn to DJ.

One big reason is the lack of evolution in fully dovetailing the Virgin Blue FF scheme with any other of the international airlines. I want a seemless domestic/international FF scheme, with, for example, inter-changeable status credit earn (say) on Emirates or Virgin Atlantic with DJ, or better still joining Star Alliance. Meanwhile I get that from QF/OneWorld and like many others put up with (actually quite alot) of "BS" and poor service in exchange for the benefits.

I am personally unlikely to fly Tiger, but think you are fooling yourself if you believe that you won't lose some of your market share - admittedly maybe not your business clientele (which may be where you biggest profit margin lies) and perhaps Tiger will help to expand the market itself through aggressive pricing and novel airport usage.

It is a personal perception that QF have failed miserably to turn the knife into DJ as far as the business clientele is concerned, by letting their service standards fall instead of being determined to develop and maintain their product to define a demonstrable product differentiation compared to DJ (which would relate to perceptions of "value") - possibly because they have been so obsessed with their favourite child JQ. The QPs are a zoo, the 767s tired, etc, not to mention the absolute farce that is BNE check in. One pithy example is that a J class passenger on QF now has to pay a $10 fee to change what is supposed a fully flexible fare.

If QF decided to take its product seriously again I think it might be DJ that is caught out in no mans land, neither a LCC and neither a fully optioned full service carrier, but you might be lucky as the QF managers focus on the Tiger vs Deathstar battle and continue to ignore their core brand (madness).

crazydave98,

I'm in a similar boat to Platy here. Whilst not everything he says is relevant to me the sentiments are the same. I'm one of the people that DJ should have spent the dollar to keep rather than having to spend the mega dollars to get back.

The giggling hosties, the poor baggage handling and associated OH&S practises, the need to walk on noisy, 85+db tarmacs (not exclusive to DJ but still a major problem) etc are all issues to me. The last time I travelled DJ I was challanged on the tarmac by one of the staff as my self provided ear plugs were a FOD hazard. That was quite a few years ago and I haven't been back since

My first flight on DJ in many years is from MEL-CHC in March so the opportunity is there to impress. Our group would be a good one to impress as it includes a group of six pilots with over 100,000 flying hours between them including former and current military and airline pilots.

[crazydave98]

Thanks Platy & Bill for the very constructive feedback.

Bill, I hope that since it is quite a few years ago that you last tried Virgin Blue that your trip in March does not disapoint. One thing though - we regard Pacific Blue as a leisure focussed airline, running lower frequencies than Virgin Blue on routes that are predominantly leisure, so it is not just a clone of Virgin Blue. To be frank you are more likely to come across crew behaving like Virgin Blue did several years ago but are training them out of now for the business clientele in Australia. I would very much like to hear what you would say about say a SYD-MEL trip. I was a bit puzzled about the baggage handling comment - what makes you think there is any difference at all between the airlines (other than that we lose fewer bags than Qantas and they put them into containers out of sight while we load directly into the hold in full view)?

Platy, I hear you on frequent flyer benefits/redemptions/transfers on other airlines. All I can say is watch this space. No-one is fooling themselves that Tiger won't take some marketshare, so I'm surprised that you seem to think that's our attitude. As I said in my 2nd post of this thread Tiger will always get leisure travellers through aggressive pricing. But whether they can make a profit is another matter - they haven't yet in over 3 years and eventually even the Singaporean tax payer will get tired of throwing money at them.

cheers

CrazyDave98

[Platy]

Platy, I hear you on frequent flyer benefits/redemptions/transfers on other airlines. All I can say is watch this space.

Many thanks for the follow up info, Dave. I am sure that I am not alone in really wanting DJ to succeed on all levels. The market has been too long without a seriously competitive business-pitched product to QF. Obviously you have been moving to address this, particularly in the last couple of years, which is most welcome and already many businesses have churned or are prepared to mix their airline suppliers.

I look forward to seeing how your product and FF scheme develop and trust that if you get it right, you will be rewarded for your efforts with a win-win for both airline and customer.

[simongr]

(other than that we lose fewer bags than Qantas and they put them into containers out of sight while we load directly into the hold in full view)?

cheers

CrazyDave98

Why is loading in full view better? Having had one of my colleagues bags severely damaged by rain I would much rather a container.

[crazydave98]

Why is loading in full view better? Having had one of my colleagues bags severely damaged by rain I would much rather a container.

I didn't say it was better - just different. Point being that if there is any rough handling of baggage it would be visible while you couldn't tell if Qantas and Jetstar were using a garbage compactor to load their containers (but just for the record I don't think this is the case). Personally, I agree that containerisation is a better solution, not only for rain, but for OH&S of our crew who work inside the hold.

cheers

CrazyDave98

[Platy]

Point being that if there is any rough handling of baggage it would be visible

I watched a QF baggage handler loading a 737 literally throwing bags around 3 metres from the trolley onto the conveyor one lunch time waiting for a flight to ASP. He was in full view of all and sundry through the windows of the QP in Darwin. I have a series of "action shot" photos which capture the style quite well - the wide arching orbit of the bags, the instransigent posture of said chappie and the lurching halt of the bags landing on conveyor belt.

I was very pleased that I had not checked in any baggage that day. Anything remotely delicate - bottle, after shave, perfume, etc, would have been smashed for sure.

The journey didn't improve when I discovered that a 1335 departure (DRW-ASP) didn't qualify for a lunch service and the hotel room with a view in ASP had no view after all...

[clifford]

I watched a QF baggage handler loading a 737 literally throwing bags around 3 metres from the trolley onto the conveyor one lunch time waiting for a flight to ASP. He was in full view of all and sundry through the windows of the QP in Darwin. I have a series of "action shot" photos which capture the style quite well - the wide arching orbit of the bags, the instransigent posture of said chappie and the lurching halt of the bags landing on conveyor belt.

The journey didn't improve when I discovered that a 1335 departure (DRW-ASP) didn't qualify for a lunch service and the hotel room with a view in ASP had no view after all...

He wasn't wearing a camel suit, was he?

Also, what kind of view could you expect in ASP?

[JohnK]

I was a bit puzzled about the baggage handling comment - what makes you think there is any difference at all between the airlines (other than that we lose fewer bags than Qantas and they put them into containers out of sight while we load directly into the hold in full view)?

I have seen QF baggage handlers load luggage, some of it mine, on to the conveyor belt in MEL last year and it was not a good experience. Both my bags were damaged and I have posted a thread on AFF somewhere. Bags are dropped from a height on the conveyor belt without regard for the contents in the bag and my golf travel bag was on top of the pile on the trolley and when they took bags from the bottom the golf travel bag came crashing down.

Again I have to stress that this is not a pretty sight and the outcome was a replacement golf travel bag and repairs to my luggage.

[Platy]

He wasn't wearing a camel suit, was he?
Also, what kind of view could you expect in ASP?

No sir, there is no point in dressing up as a camel since they have real live ones in the NT!

It is a lot harder to view the airside from the ASP QP, besides which all attention is centred on the arrival of the one small tray of lunchtime foccacia allocated under the current miserly QF budget cuts regime, miss it and go hungry (or go catch and eat a camel).

Reminds me of the time when I transited AYQ and the food bar shut 20 minutes early denying a cold crownie and sambo for passengers on our flight between PER and CNS.

I seem to have a bad record with lunches when travelling in the NT!