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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 24th November 2004, 09:57 AM
Warks's Avatar
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QFF programme changes - AGAIN! Can't be good news?

Not sure I like the sound of this: "you'll need fewer points for our most frequently redeemed Award flights" sounds okay but "in most other cases the number of points required for an Award flight will increase" doesn't!

Please post any further info if you know anything more

Quote:
We're making some important changes to the Qantas Frequent Flyer program. These changes will give you greater choice and flexibility, whilst providing for the future growth of the program.

Here are the key features:

Effective 24 November 2004
share the benefits with the introduction of Family transfers
more flexibility and choice with Top-up points

Effective 25 May 2005
you'll need fewer points for our most frequently redeemed Award flights; in most other cases the number of points required for an Award flight will increase
choice of one-way or return Award flights, offering greater flexibility
service fee when making assisted Award bookings
simpler Award flight calculation process
changes to earning Status credits in line with the new 10-zone table
loyalty bonus points to replace Upgrade credits, for greater flexibility
new Flight Award upgrade processes, including removal of confirmed International Upgrade Awards
Flight Upgrade Awards will no longer be available on heavily discounted airfares

We'd like to thank you for being a Qantas Frequent Flyer and trust you will continue to enjoy the range of benefits offered by the program.

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Old 24th November 2004, 11:58 AM
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Its a shocker. Mind you, i expect its like all the changes they continue to make - benefits some, disadvantages others.

I haven't had time to go into it in too much depth - but the key points I can see are:

GOOD: (these are effective immediately)

1. You can now transfer points on the web site between eligible family members. Page is already available. Login to your account then follow the links on the page. Read the terms and conditions on it though. Min 5,000, max 100,000 and once every 12 months if I'm reading it right!

2. There is also a new link for you to "top uo points" via charging your credit card. Again - read the rules. Can't exceed 15% of the required end balance, 500 point blocks of purchase, once every 12 months etc!


BAD: (effective May 25)

From a very quick spreadsheet analysis this is not looking at all good. But as I said, depends where you're flying.

In summary, they're changing the whole 5 zone return miles concept to 10 ONE WAY zones. But check out the points tables - CAREFULLY.

You'd be a thousand points better off on an DiscEcon>Bus seat upgrade if you're doing Sydney Melbourne everyday - thats cool.

If you're trying to get from the eastern seaboard to Auckland or Perth the one way miles on these (1341mi and 2041mi respectively) will put them in one way zone 3 which is 16,000 so thats the same.

However - check out ALL of the points required for redemption of full flight rewards (which I do occasionally for Syd>Per usually Bus Class). Zone 1 econ is better, but at a glance the rest is worse - bordering on horrific:

Syd - Mel Return (936mi)
ECON was 1xZone-1 = 20,000, will be 2xZone-1 = 16,000
BUS was 1xZ1 30,000, will be 2xZ1=32,000

Syd - Perth Return (4082mi) [weep]
ECON was 1xZ2 = 30,000, will be 2xZ3 = 36,000
BUS was 1xZ2 = 45,000 will be 2xZ3 = 72,000

Syd - Auckland of course is some 700 miles less each way but fits beautifully into the lower end of the same zones as Perth.

Tell me I've got this completely wrong !

If not - I expect it's going to cause a huge cafuffle.

In times when inflight service is quietly, slowly whittling away, and I'm sure those seat rows are inching closer together they really need to do all they can to keep the loyalty of the flying public, particularly the frequent ones.

Sorry this is brief - I'm a bit short on time today. I await eagerly what comes of all this.

If you haven't got the mail yet - you'll find the changes on the website under "new program features" (theres a good word) after clicking on the top FF menu.

Safe Travels,

Simon
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Old 24th November 2004, 12:20 PM
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How many miles is the following. I want to work out the effect the changes will have on it.

Mel-Lax
Mel NYK

Thanks
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Old 24th November 2004, 01:04 PM
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Posts: 25
Return Brisbane / Tokyo was 50000 is now 60000.
My points have been devalued by 20%.
So much for loyalty.
Thanks a lot Qantas.
It is very hard not to be cynical about banks and airlines when the banks went from one point per dollar to .5 of a point and now Qantas lift their requirment.
So last year I had to spend A$ 50,000 to get a return flight to Tokyo, then the banks moved the goalposts so I had to spend A$100,000.
Now with Qantas moving the posts at the other end of the field I will have to spend A$ 120,000.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
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Old 24th November 2004, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigjodie
How many miles is the following. I want to work out the effect the changes will have on it.

Mel-Lax
Mel NYK

Thanks
MEL-LAX 7,923
MEL-NYK 10,400 (approx.)
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 24th November 2004, 01:45 PM
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Thanks for that.

it looks like the pionts required business/first class have gone up by close to 40%
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Old 24th November 2004, 01:51 PM
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I would suggest that all QFF members send an email to QANTAS stating your disatisfation rather than just on the forums. Its probably the only way QANTAS will know thats its current members are un happy. Maybe a representative from Frequent Flyer can put forward a case for members????

I'm not happy about the news even though i'm not a member but have been considering it for sometime. Not sure at this stage if I will become a member now or look elsewhere.
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Old 24th November 2004, 02:07 PM
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Posts: 37
Qantas shafts its most loyal customers

The article headline in the SMH ought to be "Qantas shafts most loyal passengers". My brief commentary on my first review of the minutei of the changes is as follows:

- Airlines (as always) increase the level of miles required. The airlines have a commercial objective in doing this.

- Qantas' changes represent, in many cases, a phenomenal increase in the 'cost' to most passengers. However, the bitter pill is sweetened by the small change to the SYD-MEL route from 20,000 down to 16,000.

- The biggest impacts come at the top end of the scale for the most loyal passengers. The 'cost' of a SYD-EUROPE has increased as follows:
Economy was 110,000; now 128,000
Business was 220,000; now 256,000
First was 275,000; now 384,000
That's a 40% increase in the last category. Or to put it another way, they've wiped 40% off the value of points for the most loyal passengers who use their points in this manner. If you have a large balance the this has an enormous impact. As an indication of scale, those with 440,000 points or more have a $ loss of >$8,000 from a total points value of (say) $20,000. Ouch. Maths available on demand.

- However, at least they're not making it retrospective in the unethical manner that Altitude recently did.

- Of course, all this is exacerbated by the recent changes by the banks that make the earning of points harder. I assume someone from smh can put together an interesting article that shows that the average gold and platinum member has had their total benefit cut in half as a result of the banks and qantas combined.

- The phase-out of upgrade credits is a real loss but (as I understand it) this is a benefit that many other airline loyalty programs do not currently give.

- The solutions to all this, of course, lie in the competition:

1. Virgin Upper Class gets here in December - good for the international travellers but no good to the domestic ones. I understand that the upperclass service is (like SIA) far superior to QF.

2. SIA, again for the international travellers is a much greater benefit. Without having checked the data, I recall that the cost of an awards flight to Europe with SIA is around 80,000 - 90,000 (rather than 128,000 for QF). To put it another way, the SIA program grants >150% of the benefits that QF does.

I am not aware of a great solution for domestic travellers.

Anyway, back to work .. .. ..


Vaccav

PS I can be reached at vaccav74@hotmail.com.
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Old 24th November 2004, 02:19 PM
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The best way I've found to do these is to use the "points calculator" from the Frequent Flyer tab on the qantas website. Choose the "how many points do I earn for my travel" button and work it out from there. Presently, as its 1 mile a point the number of base points is the mileage qantas treats it as. Failing that, use the "route maps" applet under the main Flight Info tab. Click the origin, then the destination and a box pops up with the distance in kilometres (divide by 1.6? for miles) and 5 options to do with that route. All very clever !


Simon



Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigjodie
How many miles is the following. I want to work out the effect the changes will have on it.

Mel-Lax
Mel NYK

Thanks
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 25th November 2004, 12:33 AM
Lindsay Wilson's Avatar
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Interestingly, I found out about the changes from my best friend in SIN who alerted me to it early this morning by SMS.

I haven't had a chance to digest all the changes and won't until my Friday PM flight BNE/MEL when I will stop for the first time-out I'll have had in the past coupleof weeks. Have printed out all the changes and will be looking at the combination of my points & UC's as well as my wife's to try and work out the best solution for us.

Also, a very healthy discussion has already taken place on Flyertalk - 7 pages long in one day (unheard of previously)...

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FF Programs: QFF Gold (OW Sapphire) QC Life, LTSilver & 57.5% to LTG, AAdv (24.35% to LTG), NW. Hotel: PC Plat, Hyatt GP Gold, HHonors Gold, SPG, Marriott Rewards, PriorityGUEST. Car Rental: Avis Pref, Hertz No 1 Cards: Amex Plat, Visa Plat.
Flown 585 sectors totalling 821,765 miles since March 03, 1988 (ba97.com)
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