Qantas, Loyalty and Tiger Airways

[city8flyer]

Hi guys,
I want to pose an arguement to you guys.

I think most of you would agree....... Qantas relies heavily on the loyalty of its customers. Despite Qantas offering a superior product, it overcharges on its routes........ and thus relies heavily on customers' loyalty to sell its seats. Qantas is very smart, in that it achieves this loyalty to the brand through patriotism (of Australia). It strongly associates itself as 'proudly Australian' (slogan 'Spirit of Australia' on most QF aircraft....... except on QF NZ domestic aircraft lol), and it attaches itself to such icons as our national soccer (Qantas socerroos) and rugby (Qantas wallabies) teams....... generating these feelings of patriotism to our country whenever we fly Qantas. Qantas is very smart!!!!!!

However Qantas....... for a long time now, in return snubs the travelling public........
* Despite high profits.....Qantas has recently raised the prices of red-e-deals by $6-12 on many key routes, despite an imminent airfare war.
* Ridiculous fuel fines for the travelliing public
* A Frequent Flyer program which is sub-standard in terms of quality
* A general 'take it or leave it' attitude amongst many QF staff . I really believe that this is the general attitude amongst alot of QF staff. There are some really good staff, but saying this........ there are some real shockers.

Also- Qantas group has been further treating the Australian travelling public with 'contempt' when they transfer QF INTERNATIONAL routes into JQ........ and charge a fare (talking about Jetsaver fares) which is not all that different with QF's normal red-e-deal fare. In my opinion, half the discontent regarding JQ international is the fact that they do not differ too much in price to mainline QF's prices when routes are transferred...... even though Dixon has boasted about JQ's tremendously low cost base. Thus, when selling a Jetsaver fare, Qantas group are probably making more money per seat sold than when selling a Qantas red-e-deal seat. I may be wrong on this....... but it is my view/opinion

So basically, Qantas is not showing the same loyalty to its customer, as customers are showing to Qantas. Virgin Blue has had the chance to lead the way in terms of airfare prices, but has instead grown into a comfortable monopoly with QF- and prices have steadily risen post Ansett and the 'initial airfare plunge'. Because of Virgin not being the 'real deal' in terms of keeping airfares low....many of the travelling public remain loyal to Qantas....... and for this reason (despite Qantas not being as loyal to us) continue to fly Qantas.

When Tiger Airways comes into the domestic market, and offers fares which are geniunely WAY cheaper than QF...... will you continue to fly QF? Has QF shown you enough loyalty, and treated you 'well enough', so that you will stay loyal to them when Tiger comes into the fray? If Tiger Airways and JQ/'Qantas Group' offer the same domestic fares..... would you be loyal to Tiger Airways or QF Group?

In my opinion, Qantas's poor showing in the choice poll is not about Qantas's inflight product...... but more about the ill treatment and lack of loyalty Qantas displays to the Aussie public. Public are just getting sick of this. Opinions?

[QF009]

I'd stick with QF for my AAdvantage miles, and because my AA PLAT/ow Sapphire status allows free access to the Qantas Clubs - I'd have to pay $30 for entry to Virgin's lounges. And horror of horrors - no lounge access at all if I fly TR.

Besides, work has a contract with QF so that's my monthly visits to CBR taken care of.

I've not flown JQ - and am happy to keep it that way, though this might change when I suddenly find myself on a route that sees me choosing between DJ/JQ/TR/DJ's proposed cheapo carrier. Rumour is that Sapphires/Emeralds get access to Qantas Clubs when on JQ but that's pretty YMMV atm.

I've got no problems with QF WHY or J services internationally (haven't got the luck to be in F). But if in WHY - I'd rather go via SYD to be on BA's WTP product - but since QF is seemingly introducing WHY+ on its A380, I might just fly direct with QF in future. Most of my premium cabin fares are bought as RTWs - no fuel fines there for QF/BA segments when ticketed with AA. Award seats on QF/BA etc are also ticketed by AA since I use AAdvantage miles - no fuel fines there.

Qantas Frequent Flyer is indeed substandard IMHO - hence I migrated to AAdvantage all those years ago, despite continuing to fly QF.( Umm ok there was that brief stint with SQ/LH for a while...) 120 000 miles for a oneworld return J award to Europe is a no brainer, cheaper than QFF MFU discount Y to J.

So for my personal circumstances - QF is fine really. Can't speak for everyone else of course.

[city8flyer]

Yeah.... if you have good status, it may get complicated........ but with QF's current prices and the lowly state of the Frequent Flyer Program....... you'd probably be better off financially to grab the cheapest flight option.

Example:
At the moment...... Australian Domestic Airfare prices are way too high. Look at a comaprison of Intra-Europe airfare prices vs Australian Domestic Airfare prices.

Example: Rome-London (Duration 2:45) vs PER-ADL (Flight Duration 2:50). All taxes and surcharges included in quoted prices. Further evidence that the QF/DJ team are ripping us off......

PER-ADL (2hrs 50min)
QF (4 direct flights per day) $256 (Red-e-deal)
DJ (2 direct flights per day) $199 (Blue Saver)

CIA(Rome)-LHR (2 hrs 45 min)
BA (5 direct flights per day) $114 (Normal fare)

CIA(Rome)-London Luton (2 hrs 45 min)
Ryan Air (1 direct flights per day) $55 (Normal fare)
Easyjet (2 direct flights per day) $83 (Normal Fare)

CIA(Rome)-London Gatwick (2 hrs 35 min)
BA (1 direct flight per day) $87 (Normal Fare)

There is no way that DJ have a better inflight product than BA.......but they charge $85 more. How does QF justify the $150 price gap between itself and BA for a comparable route? This is daylight robbery....... its worse than our current elevated fuel prices in Australia. But Qantas have raised the prices once again.......with no good explanation. QF and DJ need to be put on notice........ and we as a travelling public must make noise. Opinions?

[straitman]

city8flyer,

Interesting and something I need to think about.

One question though. When running these numbers have you taken into account taxes and how does this affect the equation ie are the taxes through Europe and Oz proportional or not

[city8flyer]

All prices quoted include all taxes and surcharges.

[straitman]

All prices quoted include all taxes and surcharges

city8flyer,

Understood, however I think you missed my point.

Are the taxes a similar % of the total in Oz when compared to Europe

[Helot]

Sorry just joined this. One of your original assumptions is wrong city8flyer. QF do charge more but their product isn't superior to many airlines. QF won't get my loyalty when Tiger arrives assuming that they reward in Star Alliance FF programs.

[city8flyer]

Sorry straitman.......here are some more detailed figures in relation to air taxes in Europe and Australia .
Taxes:
CIA-LHR (on BA): $42, ($15 Fuel Surcharge included in this price)
ADL-PER (on QF): $47 ($32 Fuel Surcharge included in this price)

Thus QF's fuel surcharge is twice that of BA's. Airport Fees, Levys and Taxes are MORE expensive on the CIA-LHR route, but QF's Fuel Surcharge make their taxes on the ADL-PER route more expensive.

[Evan]

Sorry just joined this. One of your original assumptions is wrong city8flyer. QF do charge more but their product isn't superior to many airlines. QF won't get my loyalty when Tiger arrives assuming that they reward in Star Alliance FF programs.

But TR are not a star alliance member, so unless they plan to become one no chance there. Also LCC's drive there fleet very hard, an un-serviceable plane could cause a lot of problems, just witness Jet* current issue when an A332 goes unservicable. Me, done my share of LCC's, they are ok, but not generally for me i prefer a good network and the services that come with it.

I guess it all depends if its for pleasure or business.

E

[city8flyer]

Hi Evan, but compare BA and QF. Both are full service carriers of comparable quality (both are 4 star airlines according to Skytrax). QF is over 2.25 times more expensive on a comparable route......... meaning that QF are problably making 2.25 times more per seat sold than BA for the same/comparable route. QF are worse than the fuel companies/stations which come under so much scrutiny......