[serfty]

Slots are generally only important in Peak times.

A $200 MEL-PER fare to me ex MEL would be less costly than a $99 fare ex AVV.

As far as the JQ advertising goes it's 'spin'.

[stuartfaz]

Originally Posted by serfty

Slots are generally only important in Peak times.

A $200 MEL-PER fare to me ex MEL would be less costly than a $99 fare ex AVV.

As far as the JQ advertising goes it's 'spin'.

For me, any fare ex-MEL is less costly than going JQ ex-AVV...to me, it doesn't seem like JQ passes on all the savings an airline should get from operating out of a shed in Geelong...

[pauly7]

Originally Posted by crazydave98

I think you missed my point. The triangle is infinitely more profitable to fly than the routes that Pussy has chosen, even in a startup situation and despite competition. There is a very good reason why Tiger is not starting up on these routes - and it's not by choice. Can you work it out?

Originally Posted by crazydave98

Clearly the answer to my question was "no".
I'm not flattering anyone that Tiger will be scared of anyone's competitive response - that's your interpretation. Thanks for the warning to pay attention - I don't know why we hadn't noticed Tiger until now. I'll just go shoot some staff to wake the others up.

Dave, I (and I know many others) really value your opinion and the information you and others here provide on DJ's plans etc.

But there is no need to be sarcastic and condescending - it is actually very unlike you - which leads me to believe you are a bit frustrated by people assuming your company is sleeping on the job etc from the recent QF/JQ hogging all the news. This is only a discussion board, people are speculating because there hasn't been much news on DJ.

I for one have no doubt that you and your team have a robust plan for dealing with Tiger, Jetstar, Qantas and beyond. And just remember you are representing your company on here!

I really hope you continue to contribute in a constructive and helpful manner, like you were before all of this....

Thanks again

[crazydave98]

Originally Posted by pauly7

Dave, I (and I know many others) really value your opinion and the information you and others here provide on DJ's plans etc.

But there is no need to be sarcastic and condescending - it is actually very unlike you - which leads me to believe you are a bit frustrated by people assuming your company is sleeping on the job etc from the recent QF/JQ hogging all the news. This is only a discussion board, people are speculating because there hasn't been much news on DJ.

I for one have no doubt that you and your team have a robust plan for dealing with Tiger, Jetstar, Qantas and beyond. And just remember you are representing your company on here!

I really hope you continue to contribute in a constructive and helpful manner, like you were before all of this....

Thanks again

Hi Pauly7,

When someone tells me I'm dreaming and flattering myself and my company it is offensive and I think I'm entitled to be a bit narky towards the perpetrator.

I'm not frustrated at people thinking we're not on the job because we're not joining Jetstar and Pussy acting like a pair of seagulls squabbling over a chip. We have very deliberately stayed away from that - we're quite happy not to be associated with them. I've made the point many times that Qantas is our competitor - over 50% of our capacity competes against just Qantas and only 14% of our capacity competes against just Jetstar (and the rest against various combinations of QF/JQ/TR/ZL etc). Maybe if Jetstar and Pussy flew over 20 services a day SYD-MEL and SYD-BNE we would respond differently.

I value participatation AFF to get direct feedback about what members value and want and how they perceive the various airlines stack up, and believe it or not this influences decisions we make. Several members of this forum met with me and Brett Godfrey at our offices (thanks Lindsay for organising) and he trawls the boards too (G'Day Brett). But what does frustrate me are the armchair halfbacks trying to tell us how to actually run the business, or just taking every opportunity to put the boot in like some tribal football yob - definitely not meeting your criteria of "constructive and helpful". But thank you to the majority of members who are generally constructive and helpful.

CrazyDave

[dajop]

Well QF have now entered the fray as well. MEL-ASP has dropped from $286 to $149 for travel during the period 01 Dec - 18 Mar, which makes MEL-ASP only $9 more than AYQ-ASP (and bizarrely HBA-ASP "red e deal" some $252 more than MEL-ASP)

[garyjohn951]

Thank God for competition, could you imagine the 1000's we would be paying if Qantas has a monopoly.

[crazydave98]

Originally Posted by stuartfaz

man im still no closer...only things i can come up with egarding why theyve started up where they have are using underutilised airports with lower fees (ROK, MKY), lack of LCC competition (PER, ASP) established base & connectivity (DRW), and established leisure market (OOL), gives them some control over flights n prices.

As for the triangle, i remember reading that AirAsia Long Haul is considering giving SYD a miss due to high fees. Could be same deal for TT. Then again, that didn't stop DJ starting on the triangle back in '00.

All true and all will have affected Tiger's route choices - well done that man.

But when we started on SYD-BNE back in 2000 and SYD-MEL soon after, we had our very own little Domestic Express Terminal at SYD - which no longer exists (well it's now a DHL freight shed). T2 is chockers - we already can't get enough gates when we want them and that's after taking into account that because it's a common user terminal and we are the biggest user we get preference on the common user (as opposed to dedicated) gates. Standby reckoned the 80 movement an hour cap was the problem - wrong because there are "new entrant" slots reserved. But no doubt Tiger will eventually find some slots and gates at SYD at various times of the day - they just aren't going to be doing double digit frequencies on the triangle any time soon.

[edison]

Originally Posted by garyjohn951

Thank God for competition, could you imagine the 1000's we would be paying if Qantas has a monopoly.

I CANNOT WAIT when we can get cheaper tickets to SYD-AYQ/ASP ...... Right now the red centre is too expensive!

I think Tiger is doing it right by starting it at the "not so expensive and not so much competition" routes to establish a presence around Australia. it simply makes a lot of sense that way.

[Standby]

Originally Posted by crazydave98

Hi Pauly7,

When someone tells me I'm dreaming and flattering myself and my company it is offensive and I think I'm entitled to be a bit narky towards the perpetrator.

I'm not frustrated at people thinking we're not on the job because we're not joining Jetstar and Pussy acting like a pair of seagulls squabbling over a chip. We have very deliberately stayed away from that - we're quite happy not to be associated with them. I've made the point many times that Qantas is our competitor - over 50% of our capacity competes against just Qantas and only 14% of our capacity competes against just Jetstar (and the rest against various combinations of QF/JQ/TR/ZL etc). Maybe if Jetstar and Pussy flew over 20 services a day SYD-MEL and SYD-BNE we would respond differently.

I value participatation AFF to get direct feedback about what members value and want and how they perceive the various airlines stack up, and believe it or not this influences decisions we make. Several members of this forum met with me and Brett Godfrey at our offices (thanks Lindsay for organising) and he trawls the boards too (G'Day Brett). But what does frustrate me are the armchair halfbacks trying to tell us how to actually run the business, or just taking every opportunity to put the boot in like some tribal football yob - definitely not meeting your criteria of "constructive and helpful". But thank you to the majority of members who are generally constructive and helpful.

CrazyDave

Dave pls continue to say what you passionately believe,robust discussion is good. Many posters here are actually reasonably sensible businesspersons with a resonable grasp of economics and market forces,we may not work for an airline but fundamentally the things that drive competition in the free market are no different in Avaition and most other industries...excluding Oil and banking obviously.
I said earlier I fugure so far Tiger have used around 2 and a 1/2 of the 5 aircraft they say they will start with. (I actually believe they will quietly exit a few SE Asian cities very quickly when they see how quickly Aussie punters are drawn to their entry fares-which are a heap more than they have to charge on their own turf-site todays specials of 3 cent plus taxes fares)
My punt is they will start with 8 aircraft.
Now I dont have any fancy airline scheduling tools but on a piece of paper I can make 2 aircraft do 9 return daily SYDMEL legs all within curfew.
SYDMEL is I imagine both QF and DJ most profitable route.They will think they can make money on it just as your team did when facing QF and AN. The telegraph business section hints as much today in an article "tiger bites off JQ routes".Another 3 aircraft will handle less frequency but put a stamp on MELBNE and SYD BNE and also allow them to do overnight flying from BNE & SYD to PER and DRW.
When DJ started on the eastcoast they impacted QF and AN bottom line,
This is going to happen and I'm sure your team are working in the background on protecting yr patch Brett isnt a dummy and I wouldnt suggest such.
MAC bank own SYD they will make space avail because there is money in it for them.
I'm just joining the dots here its pretty simple .I'm not having a go at you or yr company but to state they wont enter the market and they arent yr competitor are both not true.Anyone who takes any of yr customers is a competitor.
All you have to say is 1/we are watching them and 2 we have a strategy to deal with them. Snide comments are beneath yr normal imput

[stuartfaz]

Originally Posted by crazydave98

But no doubt Tiger will eventually find some slots and gates at SYD at various times of the day - they just aren't going to be doing double digit frequencies on the triangle any time soon.

So it's possible Tiger may give the triangle a miss to start off with?

I'm having doubts about them operating from BNE, they seem to have made a point of noting on this site e-Travel Blackboard: Australia's Number One Industry Newsletter that there will be shuttle services taking Tiger passengers from OOL to Brisbane, maybe using OOL a la AVV down here. AVV with class, maybe.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but I found it interesting.