Overweight man sues Air France over seat row.
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Some of you may have seen this article about an overweight man suing Air France for humiliating him by measuring him in public. Leaving aside the shamefull treatment of the fellow, what caught my eye was "Air France's website urges overweight passengers to reserve a second seat, adding that failure to do so might mean they are refused access to an aircraft if it is fully booked."
Southwest have a policy that requires passengers to buy the number of seats they occupy, but they refund the fare for the second seat if the aircraft departs with less than 100% load factor. I've read that this works quite well in that most larger Americans will buy the second seat for their comfort and the consideration of others, knowing that relatively few flights leave 100% full.
Given our waistlines are expanding faster than America's, the issue of accommodating people who can't fit within a standard seat will become increasingly prevalent here. I'm curious as to what members think about how to handle the issue (other than the obvious such as wider seats, or the impractical such as charging tickets based on weight, and bearing in mind that many routes don't have business class seats available)? What do you think of Southwest's policy? Would Air France's work if they were more discreet and considerate about how they enforce it?
I should make it clear that this is my own personal research - I'm not trying to road test any Virgin Blue plans. If anyone wants to link this topic to other forums feel free, but thought I'd try to keep the discussion in one place.
cheers CrazyDave
Overweight man sues Air France over seat row
December 21, 2006
An overweight passenger has sued Air France after being told he was too fat and had to pay for a second seat to accommodate his bulk.
Jean-Jacques Jauffret, a French scriptwriter, told Reuters on Wednesday he had felt humiliated by Air France staff who had measured his waist in public at New Dehli airport in 2005 and decided he was too big for a single seat.
A lawyer representing Air France told a court on Tuesday the company had a clear policy of asking obese passengers to pay for two seats.
"Let's be objective. This man is fat," lawyer Fernand Gamault told the court in Bobigny, according to Le Parisien newspaper. "He barely fits on the courtroom chair. How could he sit in an airplane?"
Gamault was not available for comment but Jauffret confirmed the lawyer's comments and said he was denounced as "fat" and "enormous" on countless occasions during the hearing.
"I felt shocked and humiliated by what he said," Jauffret added.
Jauffret said he weighed more than 160 kilos (352.7 lb) and said he had flown numerous times, including on other Air France flights, without ever being asked to pay more.
Air France's website urges overweight passengers to reserve a second seat, adding that failure to do so might mean they are refused access to an aircraft if it is fully booked.
Jauffret has asked for 8,000 euros ($10,580) in damages and 500 euros reimbursement for the cost of the additional ticket. A verdict in the case is due on Feb. 20.
Reuters
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I think the Southwest policy is a great idea; Virgin & Qantas should follow suit (but please don't follow their dreadful excuse for of inflight food).
I once bought an extra seat from Qantas simply because I needed some extra SC's & this was cheaper than buying a more expensive ticket class. But the exercise was a hassle & could only be done over the phone with the extra cost of a phone booking incurred.
It would be great if you could book an extra seat on-line; to me more space is like 'premium economy class' in a sense, helpfull if you are working with a laptop etc. Qantas charge the exta seat free of taxes and fuel fines & the passenger gets the additional SC's and FFP's. I would book it more often if it could be done easily on line.
It already seems to me to be a growing problem, and I seem to have witnessed more passangers requiring additional seasts in the last year than previously. It is obviously a touchy situation for many of the affected passengers and I think that airlines need to be respectful of that. Having said that, I think it is quite reasonable that airlines ask for extra payment for an additional seat.
As for Air France, the reported situation could have been handled more diplomatically.
Overall, I think that Southwest has the better policy with regard to this. However, the process for doing this would need to be relatively streamlined (easy to book the extra seat, easy and quick to get the refund)
I think the Southwest approach is fair and reasonable to all concerned although it is still open to dispute if infrequent travellers are not aware of whether they will require an extra seat or not. I would be a little annoyed if I purchased a spare seat because I thought I might be borderline and then found that I didn't actually need it and then found that the flight was full so no refund Where I am heading with this is perhaps an objective standard is required? Knowing the size of a seat, perhaps state that any passenger with a waist measurement that exceeds X inches is required to purchase the extra seat or some other form of objective assessment (before the pax buys their tickets, rather than at the airport) so there is little room for confusion and dispute down the track.
I think the Southwest approach is fair and reasonable to all concerned although it is still open to dispute if infrequent travellers are not aware of whether they will require an extra seat or not.
I think bigger customers should definately have to buy a bigger or a second seat. Because it is their neighbours that are affected. I don't like having to lean into the isle because the big person next to me is taking up more than our shared armrest, or having my legs squashed sideways because their leg is in my personal space.
How about THIS? Have little steal boxes at the check in gate (similar to the carry on bag guide) where questionable sized people should get into before boarding... if they don't fit - sorry sir, you can't bring that onboard.
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Re: Overweight man sues Air France over seat row
160kg? By any standard, that's fat. Let's face it - at that size, you really have to buy a second seat if you wish to fly whY. C, even...
There is no really politically correct way of telling people that they need to buy a second seat, although AF could probably have done better than bringing out the measuring tape at checkin ( LOL!).
But there is no reason why other passengers have to be uncomfortable for hours on end just because someone is in denial about having to shoe-horn themselves into an 18" wide chair. Airlines could empower their staff to say "Sorry, Sir/Madam, company policy states that you have to buy a second seat, or you won't be able to fly in our economy cabin today". The onus is then on the passenger - buy another seat or don't fly. Airlines would have to widely advertise their new policy before it was instituted, so that no-one could claim ignorance of the rule.
Before you pay for your ticket on-line, on the phone, or at the TA, you should have to tell the airline how much you weigh! And if you lie, your ticket should be cancelled and a penalty applied to the fare refund.
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I think a mixture of common sense and public statement of policy would be useful. I work with someone who is fairly senior and was employed on the basis that all domestic flight would be in J (which is against policy) as they can't fit in a Y seat.
The key here is whether the person is in denial. I must admit, I find the DJ seats quite cosy!
My mum and I are 'larger' people, and after having an uncomfotable trip in a 2 seater on Air Canada, we decided that from now on we would buy an extra seat. When we flew United last year, we purchased an extra seat through to JFK for $1450. If you divide that by 2 and 2 again for each way, that works out to be $362.50 each for each direction. On a 20 hour flight, that is money well spent!! From SYD-SFO the plane was about 50% full, and we didn't have to have buy that extra seat. But the SFO-JFK-SFO-SYD flights were 100% full. There wasn't one spare seat, except the one between us!! We did the same again this year on NZ to LAX. Though these seats were wider, and were quite comfortable. Again the load factor wasn't a problem, except LAX-AKL, but it was better to be safe than sorry. My two cents worth.
I think a mixture of common sense and public statement of policy would be useful. I work with someone who is fairly senior and was employed on the basis that all domestic flight would be in J (which is against policy) as they can't fit in a Y seat.
The key here is whether the person is in denial. I must admit, I find the DJ seats quite cosy!
Cheers & happy Christmas
Tooner,
I am 6'2" and am carrying more weight than I should, I do fit into the seats and dont normally steal other peoples space (except maybe for the crash 8's). I have however taken the same/similar step as your collegue and taken a smaller cash component in my salary and made it a condition of my contract that domestic flights are business class. Unfortunately that doesn't help on flights without any J ie SYD-DUB or PER-PBO or ZNE.
How about THIS? Have little steal boxes at the check in gate (similar to the carry on bag guide) where questionable sized people should get into before boarding... if they don't fit - sorry sir, you can't bring that onboard.
Well, it's an interesting idea, but it probably wouldn't fly.
What I also find interesting is that if you are 1 Kg overweight with your bags, you are charged an excess baggage fee.
So why not charge an excess weight fee if the passenger is over a published maximum weight? (you could make it quite generous, really, and still have a nice little revenue stream).
After all, excess weight is excess weight, which affects airlines' bottom lines.
Where I am heading with this is perhaps an objective standard is required? Knowing the size of a seat, perhaps state that any passenger with a waist measurement that exceeds X inches is required to purchase the extra seat or some other form of objective assessment (before the pax buys their tickets, rather than at the airport) so there is little room for confusion and dispute down the track.
LOL!).
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