[Talbo]

A long story...would appreciate your opinion and advice.

My friend, I will call her Sue, tried to book an international flight on the Jetstar website and charged it to my credit card (with my authorisation). She tried that 3 times and each time the site came back with an error message or saying that the seats she tried to book might have already been sold (despite the website indicating availability). Sue then immediately rang Jetstar and the person answering confirmed that although the website indicated otherwise, the seats she tried to book might have already been sold. He then offered Sue a booking for a different fight departing two days later. He rang my wife to confirm the use of the credit card (my wife is the additional card holder), then confirmed the booking by issuing a booking code to Sue. So far, so good.

That was a Friday, and the following Monday, my online credit card statement showed that my credit card was charged twice--once for the online transaction that never went through, and a slightly different amount, evidently for the telephone transaction that was confirmed. Both amounts was over $3000, thus it was not a sum of money which one would like to part with for too long.

Sue then rang Jetstar Monday to request a refund of the first charge. At first the Jetstar lady refused a refund, then after some argument, said that the company could only refund half the amount, then after still more argument, suggested that Sue revert back to the original booking (which did not go through), and cancel the telephone booking, and that she would then get a refund for the 2nd booking.

This was a booking for an international flight and at this point, Sue had already booked the connecting flights, thus she refused to change the booking. The Jetstar lady then agreed to the refund as originally requested, but said that the refund process would take 7 weeks!

I obviously was not impressed with having to wait 7 weeks to get my $3000 back, for what obviously was a glitch somewhere in their computing system. Thus I rang JetStar the next day. They did not really wanted to talk to me as it was not my booking, but did murmur that the refund might only take 4 weeks.

I rang the Victorian Office of Fair Trading about this. They suggested that I send a register letter to Jetstar, give them a reasonable time to respond, and then contact them again. The bottomline is that I may have to wait for a few weeks anyway.


I spoke to the local branch of my bank and they have agreed to issue a charge back—all I need to do is to provide a signiture.

I pay off my credit card every month, thus the $3000 is not accruing any interests. I expect to get my credit card bill soon and the charge will be on there, and I will then have to come up with the money to pay it in about 3 to 4 weeks. At the same time, I only have a verbal promise from a Jetstar staff that my money will be refunded. I feel that I have the right to get a refund straightaway (it has now been one week).


My question is (1) has something similar happy to anyone before? (2) What do you suggest I should do? Should I go ahead with the charge back, or just wait?


Thanks in advance.

[Yada Yada]

Originally Posted by Talbo

The Jetstar lady then agreed to the refund as originally requested, but said that the refund process would take 7 weeks!

Hi Talbo. Welcome to AFF.

It is quite typical for airlines to quote 6-8 weeks for the issue of a credit. There has been some discussion on this topic on the forums here in the past and some have suggested that the airlines need this long to go through certain procedures.

I think this is bunkum. Any company with decent systems should be able to issue a credit within a few days. My opinion is that they do this simply to discourage customers from booking and cancelling tickets on a whim.

I'm not sure I can advise you on what course to take but assume you will get your money back. It might just take a while.

[Platy]

Case 1

A few years ago I needed to refund a domestic business class ticket on Qantas for about $1,000. I cancelled the booking and requested the refund over the phone without being advised that the process was lengthy. A few days later I realised that my credit card balance was too high and rang QF back and then was informed to expect up to 6 weeks waiting. Basically I refused to accept this and after a number of phone calls (progressively irate) finally managed to talk to someone in their finance area and persuade them to give me my money back. This took about two weeks in the end. Their excuse was that they had to collate and batch the data and remit to the credit card company. The reality is that it is their choice to delay repayment. My take on this is that they accrue interest for the six weeks! Some writers on this bulletin board disagree and state their motive is to dissuade people from making late changes to their travel plans - in my book not an acceptable reason for failing to return someone's cash. After all, the cost of refundable tickets reflects their flexibility.

My advice is to book flights at the last possible minute!

Case 2
Again as few years ago, I bought 2 discount business class tickets from Thai Airways Sydney office for Sydney Auckland return. The credit card did not go through the first time and the machine printed out a failed transaction notification. Despite this the second time the card was declined. I visited the bank forthwith and was told an authorisation had gone through after all (despite the transaction failure notice) and thus the card limit was compromised - the spooky thing being the authorisation amount was not the cost of the tickets! Persuaded the bank to remove the authorisation so the tickets could be purchased correctly.


Overall advice, keep ringing and escalating your complaint at Jetstar until you get to someone with the power and inclination to fix the problem. Talk to the anti-fraud people at the credit card company to discuss whether the airline has breached due process.

Personally, I don't think aiorline customer should accept the (common) industry practice of holding onto their money!!!

[Yada Yada]

I forgot to add that I cancelled a BA flight on 31st August and am still waiting for my credit of over $3,000.

[Dave Noble]

Originally Posted by Talbo

My question is (1) has something similar happy to anyone before? (2) What do you suggest I should do? Should I go ahead with the charge back, or just wait?

You could try an institute a disputed charge but I don't really see that it will serve any purpose since JQ have already agreed to refund the ticket. It will take time for the dispute process to be followed and by the time it is finished you will most likely already have the refund

A dispute process is only really worthwhile if there is something that is completely unknown or where there is a dispute with the retailer over getting a refund

If they do not refund as agreed , then I would start a dispute procedure

Dave

[Talbo]

Originally Posted by Dave Noble

You could try an institute a disputed charge but I don't really see that it will serve any purpose since JQ have already agreed to refund the ticket. It will take time for the dispute process to be followed and by the time it is finished you will most likely already have the refund

A dispute process is only really worthwhile if there is something that is completely unknown or where there is a dispute with the retailer over getting a refund

If they do not refund as agreed , then I would start a dispute procedure

Dave

Thanks very much for the suggestion. But my rationale is that the $3000 owed to the credit card is not payable until the dispute is settled, thus I don't have to come up with the money (and pay the opportunity costs) to pay it.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by Talbo

Thanks very much for the suggestion. But my rationale is that the $3000 owed to the credit card is not payable until the dispute is settled, thus I don't have to come up with the money (and pay the opportunity costs) to pay it.

That is correct. I have disputed transactions, all restaurants be careful with then as they can add amounts for "tips" . When you dispute the transaction they will reverse it from the account and hold it until it is resolved. In Australia the merchant wears the risk of payments, not the customer.

[NM]

The airline earning interest by holding onto the refund for a ling period is only a secondary consideration for them. The main reason has nothing to do with slow processes or collating information, but is done to discourage people from making and then cancelling bookings willy-nilly.

Now in cases like this one there is no justification for the refund taking any more than a few days. But they have their internal policy that says refund should be delayed to discourage people holding refundable bookings they have no (or little) intention to use.

If they did process refunds reliably in less time that the credit card billing cycle, I am sure many people would take advantage of fully refundable fares by doing things like booking two or more seats, having seats pre-allocated to be adjacent, then no-showing all but one of them and asking for a refund for the others, and enjoying a block of 2, 3 or 4 seats with no neighbours. Now that would just completely screw up the airlines yield management if people exploited the ability to refund tickets.

Unfortunately it is the airline's need to protect themselves from such practises that have led them to introduce their delayed refund procedure.

I understand their need to be protected from the scammers. However, there should be some level of flexibility to ensure honest mistakes and even their airline's mistakes do not financially inconvenience their customers.

Disputing the charge through your credit card provider is likely to end up costing you a disputed charge fee since Jetstar will inform the CC provider that a refund has already been authorised and is being processed. Check with you CC provider for their terms and conditions around disputed charges and any likely fees you may incur.

[Talbo]

Originally Posted by NM

Disputing the charge through your credit card provider is likely to end up costing you a disputed charge fee since Jetstar will inform the CC provider that a refund has already been authorised and is being processed. Check with you CC provider for their terms and conditions around disputed charges and any likely fees you may incur.

Thanks NM. I probably would have accepted the delay in refund if it were a cancelled booking. (BTW, I think Jetstar bookings are non-refundable). In this particular case, as best as I can tell, it was a glitch in either their online booking system, or at worst the Internet transmission in general. And my friend had immediately rang Jetstar about it, and their staff had accepted that it was probably a glitch.

I probably would also have accepted the delay in refund if it was a much smaller sum of money. $3000 at the interests rates usually charged by credit card company equates to about $70 worth of interests for 7 weeks. Not much for some people, but a couple of cartons of beer for me. As it turns out, I paid off my credit card last month and thus am not being charged interests now. But I will have to come up with the $3000 once my next credit card bill is due. And that money will need to come from interest bearing sources.

If the company involved was not Jetstar, but a small mom and pops Chinese takeaway that charged your credit card by mistake for $3000, then insisted on holding your money for 7 weeks before refunding it. I think there would be an outrage. Am I being unreasonable for expecting Jetstar to treat me fairly as a customer?

My credit card issuing back has agreed to issue a chargeback with no charge but I have not signed the request yet. Firstly, I want to give Jetstar a few days as I feel that is the reasonably thing to do on my part. But I am also somewhat weary what heavy-hand tactics a company such as Jetstar can do to its customer who justifiably asks for a chargeback, for a product or service never rendered.

[Dave Noble]

Originally Posted by Talbo

Thanks very much for the suggestion. But my rationale is that the $3000 owed to the credit card is not payable until the dispute is settled, thus I don't have to come up with the money (and pay the opportunity costs) to pay it.

Given 56 days from purchase to payment being required , then I suspect that the refund will be in the account by the time that payment would be required and assuming that you have an interest free period on your card, then there would not be any interest owing either which is why I would leave it until close till when you would have to pay up money to the CC company before raising a dispute

Dave