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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 27th June 2007, 11:22 PM
simoninsingapore's Avatar
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Been a no-show ? Qantas & Virgin probably owe you money !!!

Hiya,

Here's an article I'm about to place with a few newspapers. Keen to get your feedback ! No idea what the rules are on this site, if any, regarding commercial activities, but rest assured I couldn't give a bugger about being remunerated for this story, although if they offer me cash I'll probably take it. OK, so here we go.
Flown on a red dot special cheapie air ticket lately ? Couldn't make the flight and forfeited the ticket ? I'll bet you wrote the cost off as the price you pay for buying a cheap air ticket. Well guess what - the airline owes you about $40 ($150 for international flights) and it has no intention of refunding it back to you unless you go out of your way to ask for it. You might expect this sort of reluctance from the corner shop, but huge corporate entities with reputations to protect ? What does this say about their honesty and sense of decency ?
Some years ago the airlines got into the lark of shoving a number of
charges and taxes into a separate bucket to the sticker ticket
price. This has been a global phenomenon, and we are now used to
seeing headline international fares increase by about $300 when
taxes and various other supposedly "non-operational" costs are
loaded into the fare. The airlines like doing this because (1) it
makes their fares look cheap to gormless travellers and (2) it
effectively dilutes the value of the frequent flyer points they
issue. Want to fly from Melbourne to Sydney ? That'll be 18,000
points, oh and $40 to cover these nasty landing fees, and various
other charges over which we have no control. There's a fuel levy in
there also to cover the high cost of fuel these days, the largest
component in the bucket - funny they treat that as
"non-operational". You might be excused for thinking that fuel was
just one of the regular cost inputs into running an airline.

Also over the last 15 years or so we've seen aggressive yield
management by the airlines, segmenting their fares into categories
with varying levels of constraint over flexibility and redeemability
attached. Buy the cheapest possible ticket and it's likely to be
completely non-refundable if you miss the flight. But here's the
beauty of it: if the airlines are going to treat the "taxes etc"
bucket as non-operational costs, they can't then turn around and
claim they've incurred those costs if you don't make the flight.
It's your money, and they owe it to you. They are somewhat shy in
making this known, however.

My own flying behaviour is prolific and it occurred to me one day
that I could claim some of the money back when I wasted a ticket
through my frequent no-shows. Calls to both Virgin and Qantas
confirm that this is indeed the case. I sent a note to Qantas
Corporate Communications before penning this article, as a courtesy,
to allow the airline to justify its seemingly unconscionable
behaviour. I received a note back asking me who I was writing the story for. I told them it was for a few minor news outlets. No response - three parts arrogance, four parts
banditry, and three parts naivety - an uncharming mix indeed.

Let's do some back of the envelope calculations here.

Using the traffic and capacity statistics available on the Qantas
website at
About Qantas - Investors - Traffic & Capacity Stats
<http://www.qantas.com.au/info/about/investors/trafficStats>, and
assuming for simplicity that Jetstar is split 50/50
domestically/international, we see that Qantas carried 20.02 million
passengers domestically and 10.50 million passengers internationally
in the nine months to April 2007. Grossing this up to a full year,
estimating the "taxes etc" bucket to be $40 for domestic flights and
$150 for international, and no-show forfeiture rates at 1% for
domestic and 0.5% for international, we can estimate that Qantas has
collected about $21.17 million of Other People's Money through the
"taxes etc" bucket, which does not belong to Qantas, and which the
airline appears to make no effort to return to its rightful owners.
Great if you're a Qantas shareholder, not so great if you're a
Qantas customer.

Can we have it back please ?

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 28th June 2007, 12:12 PM
JohnK's Avatar
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Re: Been a no-show ? Qantas & Virgin probably owe you money !!!

Interesting story.

I think it has been discussed on AFF before that if you cancel a non refundable ticket then you are entitled to claim back the unused taxes.

I would be surprised if the no show rates you mention are accurate "no-show forfeiture rates at 1% for domestic and 0.5% for international". Have you taken into consideration the percentage of no shows involving people who purchase flexible tickets?
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Old 28th June 2007, 01:51 PM
Happy Dude's Avatar
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Posts: 129
Re: Been a no-show ? Qantas & Virgin probably owe you money !!!

Yes, interesting story but there's no news here for the viewers of this fourm. Can I suggest you actually tell the "gormless travellers" how to go about getting their refund, as part of the story? Perhaps even provide a (link to) a proforma or something? You'd be a modern day Robin Hood!
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Old 28th June 2007, 04:32 PM
fortymilliondaggers's Avatar
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Posts: 62
Re: Been a no-show ? Qantas & Virgin probably owe you money !!!

Yet how would i go about recouping said taxes/charges? If I call the airline I suspect they would be quite reluctant to do so.
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Old 28th June 2007, 04:46 PM
simoninsingapore's Avatar
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Posts: 13
Re: Been a no-show ? Qantas & Virgin probably owe you money !!!

How to recoup the money ? Just call them and tell them you want it back !! Send a letter (they don't encourage emails) to the Melbourne Customer Service address listed on the website. Or else phone them. But don't tug your forelocks about it - it's your money after all. There should be an element of outrage in your voice when you speak to them !
Good luck, and encourage any others you know to do the same.
Simon
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Old 28th June 2007, 08:21 PM
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Re: Been a no-show ? Qantas & Virgin probably owe you money !!!

Seems logical to get that money back... but I don't understand the angst the OP feels about the matter...

You buy a ticket to travel... (which most would consider a "contract" of sorts.. especially if the AIRLINE "tries anything"..) then YOU fail to show up......

And expect the airline to what? Track you down to refund the taxes?

I don't understand the anger displayed......
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Old 28th June 2007, 08:41 PM
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Re: Been a no-show ? Qantas & Virgin probably owe you money !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by trooper
Seems logical to get that money back... but I don't understand the angst the OP feels about the matter...

You buy a ticket to travel... (which most would consider a "contract" of sorts.. especially if the AIRLINE "tries anything"..) then YOU fail to show up......

And expect the airline to what? Track you down to refund the taxes?

I don't understand the anger displayed......
On the contrary.

I believe that most people would be happier if the airlines were 'even a little' more open about this and offered a way where people could actually apply for the refund.
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Bill.

Oz Fest #6" - Cairns Queensland - Memorial Day Weekend, May 22-24, 2009
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Old 28th June 2007, 09:58 PM
stryker's Avatar
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Re: Been a no-show ? Qantas & Virgin probably owe you money !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by trooper
Seems logical to get that money back... but I don't understand the angst the OP feels about the matter...

You buy a ticket to travel... (which most would consider a "contract" of sorts.. especially if the AIRLINE "tries anything"..) then YOU fail to show up......

And expect the airline to what? Track you down to refund the taxes?

I don't understand the anger displayed......
It seems, Trooper, you could be the kind of person the airlines love.

Or, the more paranoid of us could wonder if you might be representing an airline, surreptitiously. Or what?

Just a thought...
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Old 28th June 2007, 10:20 PM
straitman's Avatar
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Re: Been a no-show ? Qantas & Virgin probably owe you money !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by stryker
It seems, Trooper, you could be the kind of person the airlines love.

Or, the more paranoid of us could wonder if you might be representing an airline, surreptitiously. Or what?

Just a thought...
stryker,

I was trying to be a little more subtle with my comments. Having said that we both thought the same thing.
__________________
cheers,
Bill.

Oz Fest #6" - Cairns Queensland - Memorial Day Weekend, May 22-24, 2009
_______________________________
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 28th June 2007, 10:31 PM
trooper's Avatar
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Posts: 253
Re: Been a no-show ? Qantas & Virgin probably owe you money !!!

Wow...... didn't see THAT coming!

No, whether you believe me or not (!!!) I have ZERO connection with any airline......

And Yes, they could be a "little more open".. but I suspect THAT would not be enough to satisfy the OP.....

Please note that my concern is more about the LEVEL of anger apparently felt by the OP which to me seems out of proportion to the issue at hand.. especially for someone who admits to "frequent no shows" (How about some forethought? How about buying refundable tickets if the likelihood is seemingly that great that you will be unable to fly as planned?).... rather than the simple questions "can you get the money back", and "could it be an easier/more transparent process"...

See, I have a very strong belief (perhaps even excessive ) in personal responsibility. So... SURE it could be easier to do... whatever.... but the basic responsibility for doing .. whatever... rests with the interested party... in this case I'd suggest the person who paid for the ticket, then simply didn't show.. should be the responsible party when "effort" is required for a refund...

Does that make any sense?... some of these "gut level" things are hard to put into words!!!

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