[Flying Fox]

Now that SQ have released their A380 configuration and QF have previously released theirs, I started comparing their seat counts -

First - QF 14 vs SQ 12
Business - QF 72 vs SQ 60
Premium Economy - QF 32 vs SQ 0
Economy - QF 332 vs SQ 399

Totals - QF 450 vs SQ 471

So my points is, I have always thought of SQ as more premium to QF yet by their seating plans they are offering less premium pax in all classes, more Y pax and have managed to get more into thair A380.

So who will provide the better experience in each class and overall?

And why haven't SQ invested in a Premium Economy? Esp. with SQ always promoting themselves as a premium carrier, I would have thought that this would have been perfect for their product offerings.

[Dave Noble]

Originally Posted by Flying Fox

Now that SQ have released their A380 configuration and QF have previously released theirs, I started comparing their seat counts -

First - QF 14 vs SQ 12
Business - QF 72 vs SQ 60
Premium Economy - QF 32 vs SQ 0
Economy - QF 332 vs SQ 399

Totals - QF 450 vs SQ 471

So my points is, I have always thought of SQ as more premium to QF yet by their seating plans they are offering less premium pax in all classes, more Y pax and have managed to get more into thair A380.

So who will provide the better experience in each class and overall?

And why haven't SQ invested in a Premium Economy? Esp. with SQ always promoting themselves as a premium carrier, I would have thought that this would have been perfect for their product offerings.

I don't see that the numbers mean anything; what matters is what the specific seating is like.

SQ having less 1st class and Business class could actually mean that their cabins would be better if they use the same sector of the plane. If not and , say , the seats give the same space per passenger, then the reduction in premium numbers could be enough to make the economy cabim, although having more seats, could have more space per person

SQ may feel that having a Premium Economy could lead to a reduction in the number of people prepared to pay for business and that they would rather not have one

There are lots of variables and just numbers of seats means nothing , imo, on its own

Dave

[mileagemax]

Originally Posted by Dave Noble

SQ may feel that having a Premium Economy could lead to a reduction in the number of people prepared to pay for business and that they would rather not have one

Agreee. SQ's new Business is a bit over the top... the seats are so wide and are also so much more expensive. I think many companies would consider Premium Economy for their employees if SQ offered it, given how indulgent Business has become with SQ. So that may be why they don't offer Premium Economy.

[NM]

I think it has something to do with geography and intended operations. SQ is hubbed in Singapore (well, derr) and plan to operate SIN-LHR and SIN-SYD initially, and I am not sure form there. So max segment length is about 12 hours. They do hope to collect some through traffic SYD-LHR, but I expect that is not their big traffic pattern overall.

QF plan to operate MEL/SYD-LAX and MEL/SYD-LHR (via SIN most likely) and I expect selling a higher proportion of SYD-LHR through tickets that SQ does. So I expect they will be selling more 14/15 hour flights to LAX and 20+ hour flights to LHR.

I expect people are looking for W cabin and more J/F seats on the Aus-US and Aus-UK routes than on the Aus-Asia routes or even Asia-Europe.

I certainly expect each airline has spent a lot of time and effort (and money) to determine what cabin types, numbers and products will bring them the best return on their significant investment. The variation in product implies to me that each airline has different demographics as their expected targets.

And I would expect EK to have a very different perspective as well, with typically higher densities of Y on the thick Asia routes they currently thrive on.

I also think QF was very purposeful in delaying their W product anouncement until it was too late for SQ to change their plans with any matching product if they determined they were going to be impacted by QF's new products.

[ANstar]

Well when it comes to Y QF look like the will have a better product. They have announced 4 self serve bars (like is currently on the 744 in J) for economy. Havent seen anywhere on the SQ seatmap where you may get these?

Who knows, not long till we find out!

[simongr]

AS I understand it - the A380 SQ hard product in Y/J is the current 77W product yeah? It is only the new F that is as yet unseen?

I half expect that the new A380 fleets to be trying to not to compete directly with other A380 product. The aircraft in itself is a differentiator from other aircraft and all will have a dramatically different product to other carriers with non-A380 fleets. In terms of competing they can compete on product rather than price against the non-A380. If you start flying your new and highly expensive A380 against someone else's new and expensive A380 all you can do is compete on price - which would reduce your ROI.

The flying public don't really know much about fleet upgrades so competition from new product on the old fleet will take much longer to become a differentiator than the arrival of the A380.

[NM]

Originally Posted by ANstar

Well when it comes to Y QF look like the will have a better product. They have announced 4 self serve bars (like is currently on the 744 in J) for economy. Havent seen anywhere on the SQ seatmap where you may get these?

Who knows, not long till we find out!

Perhaps that is because SQ actually provide in-seat service in Y rather than expecting their Y passengers to do it themselves .

[QF009]

Originally Posted by simongr

AS I understand it - the A380 SQ hard product in Y/J is the current 77W product yeah? It is only the new F that is as yet unseen?

Yep - new A380 F will be unveiled on OCT15.

[NM]

Originally Posted by simongr

I half expect that the new A380 fleets to be trying to not to compete directly with other A380 product. The aircraft in itself is a differentiator from other aircraft and all will have a dramatically different product to other carriers with non-A380 fleets. In terms of competing they can compete on product rather than price against the non-A380. If you start flying your new and highly expensive A380 against someone else's new and expensive A380 all you can do is compete on price - which would reduce your ROI.

I agree with your summation. Also note that the numbers bandied about by Airbus for operating efficiencies are based on a 3-class 555 seat loading. From memory, I think they are suggesting a 22% lower per-seat operating cost than a 744. Now that would be comparing a 555-seat A380 with say 400 seat 744. So I wonder how the operating compare between a 450 seat A380 and a 350 seat 744.

[simongr]

On a straight mathematical basis the improved efficiency is only 16%.

If you take the 400 pax and assume the 744 cost per pax is $100 that gives $40,000 total running costs - that is fixed irresprective of numbers on board. A 22% improvement in op per pax reduces the costs to 78 per pax on the 555 seat A380 at a total cost of $43,290.

Assuming the reduction in pax to 350 with a fixed cost of $40,000 that is $114 per pax. On the now 450 seat A380 the $43,290 is now $96.2 - being a 16% improvement rather than 22%.