National Gold ANT™ American Express Card

[flyingsyd]

Has anyone else got an invite to this card?
http://www.national.com.au/About_Us/0,,51053,00.html

You basically have to migrate your credit limit from your National card to the Amex card with the following:

- Double points until 31/7/05
- No points cap
- No points expiry
- 1:1 point for Qantas FF point

What I don't get is why NAB would want to move customers away from their Visa to the Amex card. Would they earn a rebate from Amex? They say that it's not the Amex reward program either, it's their own Ant reward program, but it would definitely cannibalise their Visa card usage since the limit is split.

[pbsavage]

I think most of the banks would love to move everyone over to AMEX. Since the RBA changed the fee structure on Visa/MCard, they now earn less of a kickback when the card is used. Hence the reduction of value of the points now. AMEX was not included in the RBA change, and banks can now earn more from having their customer on AMEX cards. (i think anwyay)

[flyingsyd]

AMEX was not included in the RBA change, and banks can now earn more from having their customer on AMEX cards. (i think anwyay)

Very interesting - this makes good logic then. It's going to be a price vs volume trade off I spose. There are less merchants, but higher fees, but they would also presumably have to pay Amex some fees for licensing their card.

[centurionblack]

Really interested to know what reaction do RBA have now and what do they really feel? Like chopping off thier head by the banks which has got away from the changes and still trying to make extra gains from the consumer!

What do the conusmer get after the RBA introduced the changes? More fees from bank! Higher interest Rate! Less reward!
Merchants is now Legally charge extra for customer who use card for payemnt but for cash remain no change then who pocket all the cuts on the interbank fee?

Have to praise the CBA as they are the only one which have tried to create new product launching the Platinum Card bringing the Australian closer to rest of the card's world.

Looking back at National, what a shame and stupid move, asking the current card holder to cut their limit on the existing Visa/mastercard and put it on the Amex which is not being as widely accepted! Even worst, introducing such a fake black Amex card is not going to increase their card base as this card is totally not interested by any of their customer who already hold the Amex Platinum or Black Centurion card, even the gold and Blue cardmember won't border to change with such a high fee charge on the account!

Surley National will ending up to have this program ceased very soon as happened in Canada with some other bank who tried to work with Amex!

God bless National!

[Nutcase]

The NAB Amex deal is a very smart piece of marketing and product management. As some of you have clearly stated, the RBA cut the interchange fees for Mastercard and Visa significantly (for personal cards) which has impacted the revenue base of the cards business for all banks in Australia.

As a way of clawing back some of this revenue, NAB, ANZ and Westpac decided to issue AMEX (and Diners club in the ANZ instance). Both AMEX and Diners are "closed" systems and do not rely on interchange for revenue. By issuing AMEX, NAB has been able to regain some of the lost interchange by sharing revenue with AMEX. AMEX provide the payments system (not part of the RBA ruling) and NAB provide the credit, reporting and marketing.

The NAB Ant AMEX card is offering 2 points per dollar until mid year, when it reverts to 1 point per dollar. This is a significant advantage over all other cards in the market.

NAB is trying to placate its high spending customers who have been negatively impacted by the changes of the RBA. The watering down of Rewards programs was due to the changes referred to above. By using AMEX, NAB has sidestepped the interchange issue, and provided a product to its customers that is in demand.

Yes, Amex is not as widely accepted as Visa, however, as recent events in the USA have shown with a partnership between AMEX and Citibank, AMEX are very aggressive when it comes to Visa and Mastercard customers. It shouldnt be too long before Amex is almost as widely accepted as Visa/mastercard.

Hope this clarifies the situation

[centurionblack]

All of the logical parts should be well understood by most cardholders but in fact, really curious to know how many NAB Visa/MC cardholder did sign up for this "Black Card" and how many will cancel it once the double points cease later on.

Have to admit Amex did work hard in signing up new merchants but how many time when consumer present the Amex to the Merchants (excluding all the big retailers) for payment they will be penalised for higher surcharge fees vs the Visa/MC.

Bringing up our Big and Wonderful - Telstra has already imposed a higher surcharge fee if payment were made by Amex/Diners.

Also heard lots of ANZ/Diners card holder is cancelling their card and only minimal Westpac customer holding the Amex/Westpac Alltitude card.

In fact - MBNA in the States is strongly promoting the joint Amex Card or even issuing card to the customer without their authorization, hopfully when Capital One; MBNA or the Barclaycard, are interested in Austraila will no longer having this joint card system anymore otherwise ending up we might even have the US Discovery card here soon as it's another close payment system which our RBA can't do anything to help!

[aasz1978]

Yes, Amex is not as widely accepted as Visa, however, as recent events in the USA have shown with a partnership between AMEX and Citibank, AMEX are very aggressive when it comes to Visa and Mastercard customers. It shouldnt be too long before Amex is almost as widely accepted as Visa/mastercard.

Really? I think that will happen when hell freezes.

We have this discussion somewhere in this forum where I argued that the list is shrinking rather than growing. Sure we didn't have AMEX in groceries and petrol stations before and now they have it.

But since the new RBA reform, that list shrinks if not static. Now McDonalds don't offer them. All utilities don't want them except Telstra but that's subject to a fee. Councils don't want them.

I've recently discovered Just Cuts and CitiLink Melbourne don't want them as well (except if you pay using Shell Touch Kiosk). I don't know whether MetLink wants them but I'll soon find out.

Seriously though, NAB moves to AMEX is purely a stupid idea which proves that they learn nothing from their last debacle. I suggest they should start thinking about expanding their affiliation with popular institutions such as AMA, ICAA, CPA etc with VISA/MC rather than relying on AMEX.

[centurionblack]

Very Smart comment and good suggestion that NAB should be going to issue more on the Affinity Card or Co-branded Visa/MC rather than making use of Amex to fulfill their fairy dreams.

How about a joint with David Jones and surely it should be a Win Win situation for them if they don't charge any membership fee!

[Nutcase]

Guys

I should clarify a couple of points.

Interchange funds frequent flyer points on Visa/Mcard credit cards.

Most high spenders are also "Transactors" not "revolvers". Revolvers make lots of money for the bank, while transactors cost the bank money. (Revolvers are customers that dont pay off their balance in full every month)

As you can imagine, If youre a high spender, racking up lots of points and , not "revolving", you are a VERY unprofitable customer. This will probably horrify most high volume Visa/Mcard card users as we tend to think that we are making the bank a fortune. I can assure you we are NOT.

AMEX is on the scene because it charges a higher merchant fee and doesnt have to pay interchange. In other words, it has a different revenue model.

As you have stated, Amex isnt accepted everywhere. Also, get used to the idea of Visa and Mcard not being attractive as FF point accruing machines. This is here to stay.

As a suggestion,

1) Get some form of AMEX card and opt for rewards (Ant card, Rewards Maximiser)
2) Get a citbank Silver Visa/Mcard

Use the Amex for everything that you can and the Visa as back up. All transactions will accrue points and the total fees that you will pay in a year will be about $200 (if you arent a revolver)

Surely this is a simple and inexpensive way of maintaining your points "habbit".

[clifford]

And, my friends, don't forget about Diners.

$1 = 1 point/mile.