[PennyP]

i am just wondering, if you have been caught shoplifting but you dont get fingerprinted, just have to pay a fine, does that mean that you have a criminal record?

[Dave Noble]

Originally Posted by PennyP

i am just wondering, if you have been caught shoplifting but you dont get fingerprinted, just have to pay a fine, does that mean that you have a criminal record?

Depends on the country. If you got fined, then it suggests that the person was convicted or pled guilty and so probably has a criminal record. Some countries have strange ideas and may sometimes not record a conviction despite a conviction occurring

Dave

[NM]

Originally Posted by PennyP

i am just wondering, if you have been caught shoplifting but you dont get fingerprinted, just have to pay a fine, does that mean that you have a criminal record?

I am not sure what this has to do with travel, but hey there are lots of things discussed here that fit that description .

As far as I am aware (and I am no lawyer), a criminal conviction can only be imposed by a court. Paying a fine does not impose a criminal conviction. I assume by "criminal record" you mean the registration of a criminal conviction against you.

It is possible for a court to determine that you are guilty and impose a fine and not record a conviction.

[Dave Noble]

Originally Posted by NM

Paying a fine does not impose a criminal conviction. I assume by "criminal record" you mean the registration of a criminal conviction against you.

If the offence was shoplifting and a fine was imposed, then I posit that the most likely place for that fine to have been given is at a court.

Originally Posted by NM

It is possible for a court to determine that you are guilty and impose a fine and not record a conviction.

Only in some countries

Dave

[NM]

Originally Posted by Dave Noble

If the offence was shoplifting and a fine was imposed, then I posit that the most likely place for that fine to have been given is at a court.

Possibly. I have never been caught or fined for shoplifting. But I have been fined for speeding and there was no court involved or conviction registered. Quite possibly a very different situation, however.

Originally Posted by Dave Noble

Only in some countries

I thought it was fair to assume this question was relating to Australia, but of course you are correct.

[oz_mark]

Originally Posted by NM

I am not sure what this has to do with travel, but hey there are lots of things discussed here that fit that description .

I guess the OP has had the question come up on some travel related form (e.g. visa application etc.)

[Dave Noble]

Originally Posted by NM

Possibly. I have never been caught or fined for shoplifting. But I have been fined for speeding and there was no court involved or conviction registered. Quite possibly a very different situation, however.

I thought it was fair to assume this question was relating to Australia, but of course you are correct.

Shoplifting is quite different to fixed penalties for speeding. I thought that it was quite possible that the question related to eligability to enter Australia

Dave

[vt01]

Originally Posted by PennyP

i am just wondering, if you have been caught shoplifting but you dont get fingerprinted, just have to pay a fine, does that mean that you have a criminal record?

If the fine was imposed by a court, then a conviction is recorded. Unless your lawyer was able to get a 'no conviction recorded' under first offences. This is because shop lifting is a criminal offence where as something like speeding is not. It does not really relate to whether you get a fine or some other penalty.
The law in Australia can differ from state to state. A quick google of shoplifting criminal offence will provide you with plenty of detail.
Criminal records were discussed in relation to the US Visa Waiver Program in this (VISA WAIVER PROGRAM TO USA) thread.
I also read that you must be advised if you are being charged.
I double checked this with a mate who has studied law..

[mitille]

Originally Posted by PennyP

i am just wondering, if you have been caught shoplifting but you dont get fingerprinted, just have to pay a fine, does that mean that you have a criminal record?

Currently, 27 countries participate in the Visa Waiver Program, as shown below:
Visa Waiver Program (VWP)
Visa Waiver Program - Participating Countries.
Andorra Iceland Norway
Australia Ireland Portugal
Austria Italy San Marino
Belgium Japan Singapore
Brunei Liechtenstein Slovenia
Denmark Luxembourg Spain
Finland Monaco Sweden
France the Netherlands Switzerland
Germany New Zealand United Kingdom
-----------

The following visitors will NOT qualify for the Visa Waiver Program and MUST apply for a visa:

* Persons who have ever been arrested or convicted of any criminal offence (excepting certain fixed penalty driving offences that did not result in a conviction). Note: The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act does not apply in respect of US immigration law - if you have ever been arrested or convicted of any offence, no matter how long ago it was, you must apply for a visa before travelling to the US.

* Persons who have ever overstayed in the US, been refused entry or not complied with the rules of the visa under which they were present in the US

* Persons who have certain serious communicable diseases or condition.
--------
The DS Criminal Investigative Division conducts criminal investigations into violations of passport and visa fraud. Passport and visa fraud is a federal offense punishable by up to 10 years in prison and a fine of $250,000. If the offense is connected to narcotics trafficking, the prison sentence is increased to up to 15 years, and 20 years if connected to international terrorism. Department of State Bureau of Diplomatic Security: Investigating Passport and Visa Fraud

[serfty]

There's a lot more information/discussion in this thread:

• http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/comm...ead-10018.html (USA Visas Merged Thread)