virgin vs qantas - newbie question.
Discuss virgin vs qantas - newbie question, on the General Airline Loyalty Program Discussion forum of FrequentFlyer.com.au, the home of frequent flyers.
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I tried to search the site to find an simple answer to this question but got just as confused as trying to sort it out myself from info on the Q and VB websites, plus issues seem to be fairly specific to what one needs to do...so please direct me to the appropriate thread/article if this has already been addressed somewhere.
My questions: I am just about to start a job where I will need to fly from Adelaide to each of the mainland capitals, plus Townsville, and over to Canterbury and Auckland at least once in the next 12 months. I will probably be doing a couple of extra commutes Adelaide to Sydn and Melbourne. Obviously I want to joint up for some sort of frequently flyer membership - the choice of airline to fly is up to me. The two choices from Adelaide are Virign or Qantas. I had difficulty working out from their websites the best option regarding frequent flyer points, given the different ways they calculate and claim them. I will be paying for all costs out of my pocket and then submitting claims so anything accumulated from air fares, credit cards and accomodation goes to me
So my questions are
1. What would be the best option in terms of 'value for points'?
2. What else should I consider regarding gaining points through accommodation and credit card use?
Any suggestions, tips or direction to info that provides clarity would be most appreciated!!
TIA
S
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The FF thing is important but more importantly for you is lounge access.Given you are going to all most major aussie cities,I would say thats a no brainer and join the qantas club. Also you cud well be very lucky and the QF/NZ tasman alliance gets up which will allow codesharing on the tasman so you'll get qantas points even on NZ flts.
For total FF point build given DJs limited tasman services I'd go with QF.
Interesting note on which is the best CC in todays Sydney Sunherald as well
(if you have access to it) as a points multiplyer
What do you want out of the freq flyer programme:- reward flights in Aust, reward flights around the world, lounge access, upgrades to business class?
What class of travel business or economy ?
Do you want (or are required to buy) el cheapo tickets (no date changes) or will it be flexible tickets (can change date free or for a fee)?
If going by Qantas considering joining the American Airline freq flyer programme. The earn – burn rate is much better than QF. You get AA miles on most QF fares classes (be careful on red e-deals)
With Virgin a limited number of reward opportunities, but there partner list is growing. Virgin fly trans Tasman as Pacifc Blue Airline. Similar in style to Jetstar (to be avoided on trans tasman routes in my view)
Credit card purchase can push the airline freq flyer programme points up. Some CC point transfers to AA can be done at (search this site)
For hotels tend to get better value collecting hotel points in a hotel loyalty programme and then using these for hotel stays. But the can be transferred to a airline freq flyer programme if that is want you want.
If it was me, I would be flying Qantas and putting the miles to AAdvantage freq flyer programe & the cc points to QF (as a 2nd ff programme as no value if you do nothing) or keeping cc points within Amex
[Mwenez wrote
What do you want out of the freq flyer programme:- reward flights in Aust, reward flights around the world, lounge access, upgrades to business class?
and
What class of travel business or economy ?
Do you want (or are required to buy) el cheapo tickets (no date changes) or will it be flexible tickets (can change date free or for a fee)?
S
Ah, good point - looks like it's a question with many questions ...
Basically my needs are simple. I am thinking of earning enough for reward flights in Australia to take my family on a holiday (a bribe for all the time I will now be away!), with reward flights internationally being second on the list. I will have to purchase lounge access myself I think? I am not paid well enough to justify that from the family budget at this stage...I will be travelling economy, and need to get the fares as el cheapo as possible (am travelling on research grant money i.e. a wing and a prayer) and will sometimes have firm dates that I can do el cheapos on, although overall flexible would work better to manage unforseen circumstances. I am not fussed about upgrades to business class. Nice if it happens but not the be all or end all.
[Mwenez wrote
If going by Qantas considering joining the American Airline freq flyer programme. The earn – burn rate is much better than QF. You get AA miles on most QF fares classes (be careful on red e-deals)
S
Okay, do you guys have a translation page for your acronyms...?
And thanks for the rest of your info - will look into it!
... need to get the fares as el cheapo as possible (am travelling on research grant money i.e. a wing and a prayer) and will sometimes have firm dates that I can do el cheapos on, although overall flexible would work better to manage unforseen circumstances. ...
Be aware of one issue if you intend to join AAdvantage and credit QF flights to that program. If you use "el cheapo's", the most common QF domestic 'Standard' red e-deal's book into 'N' class which does NOT earn anything with the AA program. You would be OK with any 'flexi' fare; but of course, they cost more.
(Strangley enough, the "Sale" red e-deal fares (which generally cost less) book into "O" class, which does earn on AA)
Translation page for your acronyms& jargon. You will soon get used it.
Earn rate: how many points-miles earn on trip
Burn rate: how many points-miles you need for reward a trip.
With AA reward burn miles/points are less. eg With AA 20,000 miles will get you anywhere in Aus - NZ. On QF (Qantas) you need 36,000 points and need to pay a bundle of $$ as fuel surcharges as well (The numbers may not be 100% accurate but you get the general idea). A simple way to check the earn – burn rate is how may trips A to B you need to get a reward trip A to B or A to C. AA wins almost every time over Qantas.
Qantas (QF) have 4 main economy fare types Red e-Deal, Super Saver, Flexi Saver & Fully Flexible. Within these 4 fare types are classes designated by letters (O,N, S, V, L, R, M, K, W, H. Y) (slang term :- fares buckets). These can have different mileage earn rates and QF Status Credit earn rates (and the equivalent on AA)
If the cost of trip is the major consideration, you may end up taking Virgin or waiting in airports for the cheaper QF flight.
You can join the American Airlines frequent flyer program (FFP) www.aa.com and get AA frequent flyer points/miles when flying on most Qantas flights (see Serfty's post above). (Some airlines give frequent flyer (ff) points – most give ff miles). Joining the American Airlines FFP is free. QF charge $80?
1. What would be the best option in terms of 'value for points'?
2. What else should I consider regarding gaining points through accommodation and credit card use?
Any suggestions, tips or direction to info that provides clarity would be most appreciated!!
In terms of 'value for points' and your comment that you'd like to take the family on a holiday using them, I'd suggest that you will get better value with Virgin Blue's velocity. Earning rates are quite good, redeeming is much easier, and they have plenty of flights to Qld which is where many family holidays are spent.
For credit card earning, the only cards that earn Velocity points are from NAB and you will find that more hotel chains can earn QFF points for you too. However Velocity is less than a year old though so it will continue to enlist more card and hotel partners over time.
As others have said, there are Qantas lounges almost everywhere so if your flights are spread out to all locations, this might be a factor in your decision. Virgin Blue now have lounges in SYD, MEL, BNE and ADL so if most of your flights are to these locations, you'll be well served.
Sounds like you are a family man, so here are some family-oriented thoughts:
1) Virgin's Velocity programme does not allow you to pool miles with other family members. My wife and I used Virgin to fly Perth-Melbourne-Launceston-Sydney-Perth in the past month to visit scattered offspring. If we wanted to join Velocity, we'd have to do so separately. We'd each be credited with the miles we'd flown. However, we could gift Velocity points to other family members.
This contrasts markedly with what British Airways offered when I was working in New York a few years ago. Up to four family members could pool their miles, in a fashion analogous to the American Express Ascent programme. For example, I was able to fly my daughter from Los Angeles to New York using miles I'd accumulated on Perth-New York-Perth trips. Like Velocity, there was no cost to join the British Airways programme.
2) Qantas charges $82.50 for membership of its frequent flyer programme, and that's each - you and your better half are both up for the tariff (don't know about children). Qantas, like Velocity, allows limited mileage transfer between family members.
In theory, because Qantas is a member of the OneWorld alliance, I should have been able to use the miles I'd accumulated with Cathay Pacific to get Qantas flights when I was working in New York. In fact, it was never possible to get any Qantas flight Perth-New York-Perth using frequent flyer miles. Since I prefer Cathay to Qantas that didn't bother me, but it's worth keeping in mind that airlines are businesses, not charities, and run their frequent flyer programmes accordingly.
3) If my wife and I have to fly domestically, we care about earning points to save money, and we want those points to be usable, where "usable" means we can actually get a flight, and membership is cost-effective. We don't care about lounges, movies and meals. For these reasons, we've just joined Velocity rather than Qantas. If we were still flying trans-Pacific several times a year, I would care about upgrades to business class - but that's beyond the scope of this reply.
Last edited by Flatbed; 6th October 2006 at 08:46 AM.
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