Qantas worst value FF for Membership Rewards members?

[drcam]

Is Qantas FF the worst value airline for frequent flyers?
Current situation: I live in Melbourne and earn a modest five-figure income a year. I have a yearly spend of ~25-30k, visit my family several times annually in NSW, and go and see my relatives in China yearly with perhaps a vacation somewhere thrown in.

A business class flight from MEL-HKG in Qantas costs 60000 miles in the Classic awards scheme. Points required for anyseat are so exorbitant there's no point in redeeming. Economy is 30000 miles.

Economy from MEL-HKG one way is only <17000 miles in the Virgin Atlantic miles while an Upper class flight is 40000 miles.

Singapore airlines will get you from MEL-PVG which is further than Hong Kong for ~55000 miles after discount (cf. 72000 with Qantas) in business class.

So where's the catch? Are Qantas just stingy, or are there more strings attached? perhaps you don't earn any miles on Singapore airlines with most discounted economy fares which I so stingily dole out every vacation. But even then, this seems a little inequitable.

[MelUser]

I think there are other reasons why people choose to fly Qantas. If it was purely price then everyone would be on other carriers.

For me it's things like safety, dependability, lounge access, special privileges for upper tier FF members - eg extra luggage, good access to points requested upgrades for paying passengers, going that extra mile for people travelling with small children.

I think too that if rewards/awards were cheaper more people would snap them up so this is one way for qantas to control availability - IE if awards were cheaper there would be even less of them as people would be snapping them up more than they already are.

[dajop]

You are right, Qantas is not terrific value for use of points accumulated through credit cards, Virgin Atlantic and Singapore Airlines are two examples of where you can to the same places for less points (although watch Virgin Atlantic - they only fly to SYD and you need to get to SYD to take advantage of their awards).

Where Qantas works well is for frequent flyers - as the name suggests - if you fly enough on Qantas you can 25%, 50% or 100% bonuses for miles flown depending on your tier (this compares to 25%, for example on Singapore airlines for their high tiers). So if earned through flying and you're a platinum who get 100% bonus, you only have to fly 15,000 miles to get a 30,000 pt redemption. On Singapore airlines for example, a person with an equivalent tier would need to fly 24,000 miles to get 30,000 pts. But for credit cards this is not the case where it is 1:1 (like it is for Singapore, Virgin Atlantic, Virgin Blue & Qantas).

[moa999]

Although I would note that the status bonus is not as useful for frequent domestic flyers, who get no additional points (versus a non status passenger) thanks to the minimum point guarantee.

Agree it is more useful for international flyers where I also think the points earned on premium classes should be more reflective of the redemption cost and ticket price (ie increase the cabin bonuses)

[swan_tim]

I'm giving Virgin Atlantic Upper Class a go on my next work trip to London in February because of the difference in spend compared with QF/BA. Managed to get a 15% bonus on transfer from AMEX to VS as well which meant the one way redemption was only a little over 78K MR points (128K in J for QF/BA)

[serfty]

Although I would note that the status bonus is not as useful for frequent domestic flyers, who get no additional points (versus a non status passenger) thanks to the minimum point guarantee. ...

Certainly not as useful; however, it does assist somewhat for SG's on flights over 666 miles and WP for flights over 500 miles.

MEL/BNE is one such regularly flown sector.

[NM]

So where's the catch? Are Qantas just stingy, or are there more strings attached? perhaps you don't earn any miles on Singapore airlines with most discounted economy fares which I so stingily dole out every vacation. But even then, this seems a little inequitable.

Qantas seem to believe they "own" the FF loyalty market in Australia and as such can "charge" the rates they do and people will pay.

You have not even touched on the fact that even though Qantas may charge the rates you quote, finding availability for premium cabin awards can be really tough compared with some other airline programs.

And you have not touched on QF's policy of making the FF member also pay the fuel surcharges for their award redemption flight, often making the "value" even more skewed away from Qantas FF.

However, I do note that you seem to be earning the QF points through a mix of credit card spending, semi regular domestic flights and perhaps an annual international leisure trip. And you are looking to redeem for a premium cabin international journey. The program works ok for people redeeming for similar flights to those they purchase to accrue their points. By this I mean people purchasing say 6 business class return flights to China/HKG each year will earn the FF status to ensure they earn enough points and hopefully enough influence to redeem an award trip on a similar itinerary. Someone flying lots of economy class domestic trips is likely to be able to redeem a similar domestic economy class award without too many problems. But of course its natural to want to redeem for premium cabin international awards - after all, that is what a lot of QFF's advertising implies.

[simongr]

As ever the program is not that simple as well - it is not just about redemptions - it is about status. For a traveller like have been over the past two years, I would have been much better off in terms of status if I had stuck with QF rather than going to AA. I travel pretty much exclusively in premium cabins on paid fares internationally - QF would value me much more highly than AA does unfortunately.

It is a frequent flyer program not just a redemptions program...

[oz_mark]

Although I would note that the status bonus is not as useful for frequent domestic flyers, who get no additional points (versus a non status passenger) thanks to the minimum point guarantee.

Depends what you define domestic as, but as someone who's domestic flying is mostly transcontinental the minimum points guarantee is hardly ever used, and the status bonus usually does come into play.

[JohnK]

A lot people consider the Qantas FF program to be inferior to most FF programs. That may well be the case but it would be hard to convince me. Sure the QFF program may not have great value redemption rates but much easier for someone like me to get Platinum status with what I consider to be moderate spend on airfares.

Where I feel the QFF program excels is the ability to earn status and earn FF points quicker on cheap red e-deals. How long that remains the case is anyones guess but it is very generaous right now. There are also bonus opportunities through QF Holidays from time to time.

I have accumulated >320,000 QFF points since April 2007 when my QFF point balance was down to ~67 QFF points after redeeming a Oneworld RTW Award for 140,000 QFF points. My current balance may not be much but it is more than enough for 2 Oneworld RTW awards. There is no way I would have earned 180,000 AA miles in the same timeframe and to even attempt to do so would have required a greater spend to book higher class airfares. As for SQ, TG, BD and all other * Alliance FF programs I would have been lucky to accumulate 60,000 miles in their FF programs with my 3-4 trips a year to SE Asia.

So the QFF program may not suit everyone but it is almost perfect for others. Oh and I have not mentioned that I have ~130,000 Amex MR points which I will probably use on SQ or VA one of these days or possibly another Oneworld RTW award on QF. I just hope the QFF program does not devalue too much before I get a chance to use the QFF points....