[TravFF]

Just received in my email...




That's right... Jetstar's off to Hawaii!
And to celebrate the launch of Jetstar's flights to Hawaii from Sydney or Melbourne, we're offering you fares from just $249 one way, web only.
Or, treat yourself to StarClass, Jetstar's premium cabin, with an introductory special fare from Sydney or Melbourne to Hawaii from $1099 one way, web only. Flights subject to regulatory approval.
But hurry, these seats won't last, so log on to jetstar.com now.
On sale now until midday (AEST) 15 September 06, unless sold out prior. For travel from 1 February to 31 May 07. Available on selected fights only and limited opportunities exist during school holidays. Conditions apply.


[snip]

Fares paid by credit or charge card attract an additional $4 per passenger per flight sector. Airfares are non-refundable and are correct as at 14.09.06 but may fluctuate. Lower fares may be available. Hawaii and Bali flights start Dec 06, Phuket and Vietnam flights start Nov 06 and Japan flights start Mar 07. These fares are not available on all flights or days and are not available from 09.12.06 to 15.01.07. Limited changes are permitted, charges apply. Telephone Bookings (131 538) attract additional amounts. Before you book your international flight, and before you travel, check current Australian Government travel advisories on www.smarttraveller.gov.au. See jetstar.com for more details and conditions. All travel is subject to the Jetstar Conditions of Carriage.

[maninblack]

JQ 3/4 eh That slots in nicely. Qantas obviously has to complete its heavy Xmas holiday bookings on this route and then its goodbye HNL I reckon. Shame to see this historic route go.

Love the Jetstar press release, Starclass offers meals and beverages...oooh now thats fancy. Next they will be bragging that economy class passenger services include access to a toilet.

You can bet that within a year Jetstar pricing to HNL will be hardly cheaper than the current Qantas pricing, afterall the promo release fare for Starclass is $2200 return for what is just premium economy, mind you its the same price as MEL-CNS in QF "business" which is also just premium economy so its fair value in comparison.

The shame is that AC will now be the only business class into HNL so it will be full and therefore expensive.

Now the caveat to all of the above is of course that QF maintains that it will continue operating...I just dont believe it, after all I would be surprised if this route can sustain 3000 extra seats.

Aloha and Maholo for your attention

[Kiwi Flyer]

Originally Posted by maninblack

The shame is that AC will now be the only business class into HNL so it will be full and therefore expensive.

NZ via AKL.

[maninblack]

NZ via AKL is hardly efficient, from MEL you have to overnight in AKL, I think from SYD also. On top of this NZ 767's aren't really much of a business class by todays standards, even the QF Dreamtime seat is bigger and gives you a half decent IFE system. But yes it is an option and you can incorporate a New Zealand stopover.

[BiziBB]

I'm not sure if the cheap fares are sold out yet, but it the sale pricing comes out at just under $900 SYD-HNL RT for two (without food, drinks, pillows etc!) at the $44 eachway price.

Will be interesting to see how this affects QF and Hawaiian business...probably not much effect just yet.

[NM]

Originally Posted by maninblack

The shame is that AC will now be the only business class into HNL so it will be full and therefore expensive.

That is based on your assumption that QF will cease operating the route. I am not as convinced that QF plans to leave this route just to JQ. I do believe the entrance of JQ to the route will be the end of the QF 747 operations to HNL. But I expect to see QF 763 ops to HNL in addition to JQ A332 ops. I expect JQ will target the leisure lowest-fare seeking tourists, while QF will target the OneWorld and business traffic.

But I have been wrong before .

[maninblack]

I don't think using clapped out (internally) 767's will be of great appeal to the upper end of the market, AC is about to move to flatbeds in business and full AVOD in economy, though this will take some time. The current AC business class seat is already bigger and has greater pitch and recline than the old QF Dreamtime number. If QF want to really differentiate their service from JQ they will have to upgrade the 767's or move to A330-300's / later 787's. But yes, I'm sure they want to be rid of those 747-300's as soon as is practical.

Aha...just checked QF website, they have just change their schedule to 767-300's from Dec 29 with different days and times. Last 747 flight is Tuesday December 26th.

[NM]

Originally Posted by maninblack

I don't think using clapped out (internally) 767's will be of great appeal to the upper end of the market, AC is about to move to flatbeds in business and full AVOD in economy, though this will take some time. The current AC business class seat is already bigger and has greater pitch and recline than the old QF Dreamtime number. If QF want to really differentiate their service from JQ they will have to upgrade the 767's or move to A330-300's / later 787's. But yes, I'm sure they want to be rid of those 747-300's as soon as is practical.

Aha...just checked QF website, they have just change their schedule to 767-300's from Dec 29 with different days and times. Last 747 flight is Tuesday December 26th.

This highlights QF's current fleet issue. They have to wait for the delivery of A380 to free up some 744s before they can do any expansion on the higher capacity routes. And they have more A333-desirable routes than aircraft (e.g. HKG and NRT).

They have to get through this current period of not having enough nice aircraft until the A380 and 787 aircraft are delivered. And that means we will continue to see the 763 operating the thinner international route for a few years yet.

But for SYD-HNL-SYD routing, I don't think they see AC is a make competitor in the same way as they see airlines like SQ on the SIN routes or even CX on the HKG routes. There will always be OneWorld-aligned passengers willing to pay QF for their old J seats (and even Y seats) rather than fly an airline that is not going to earn them alliance benefits. I suspect a considerable volume of J traffic on that route is from USA-based AA members.

If QF had the choice, I am sure they would like to have a J product similar to the A333 for that route. But I think they know that a large amount of the Y traffic will go to JQ so they are unlikely to have enough butts to fill the Y cabin of an A333 on that route. The 763 matches their need as far as capacity and operating economics is concerned. Its just that many other airlines (and QF in some ways) have moved to newer and improved J products as fas as seats and IFE is concerned. But at the moment, the 763 with Dreamtimes is the best aircraft that QF can provide for that route.

[maninblack]

But QF do have a choice, they just choose not to fix things. They upgraded all the 743's a few years ago, but I have heard that all the international 763's are still fitted with the same J seats and IFE systems they had when delivered, and most of this equipment is in poor shape. I think that these planes will still be in operation for another 5 years or so, but they have not been upgraded at all, not even to the newer Dreamtime seat with better screen etc of which Qantas pulled over 1000 out of 744's to put in Skybeds. It is not acceptable for QF to treat Y class passengers badly but even moreso it is scandalous to treat people paying for business class like rubbish.

Even AA is fixing up their 767 J class, not quite QF Skybeds, which QF could do in a 2-2-1 config but still an okay looking compact product I think being done in 2-2-2 by using very narrow armrests, which has to be better than what QF currently have and remember these QF 763's are flying long haul eg HNL, Manila, Japan, Korea etc. See "+titleText+"

As you may have gathered I am a regular traveler to HNL so these issues are of considerable interest to me.

[NM]

Originally Posted by maninblack

But QF do have a choice, they just choose not to fix things. They upgraded all the 743's a few years ago, but I have heard that all the international 763's are still fitted with the same J seats and IFE systems they had when delivered, and most of this equipment is in poor shape. I think that these planes will still be in operation for another 5 years or so, but they have not been upgraded at all, not even to the newer Dreamtime seat with better screen etc of which Qantas pulled over 1000 out of 744's to put in Skybeds. It is not acceptable for QF to treat Y class passengers badly but even moreso it is scandalous to treat people paying for business class like rubbish.

Actually, most the 767-338's were delivered before Dreamtime seats, and the Dreamtimes were installed in the late 1990s. But you are correct in that they have not received the same IFE screen upgrades as the 747's got before the Skybeds were installed. And I agree that it would seem to make sense to use some of the ex-747 Dreamtime seats to "upgrade" the 767s.

I think some of the 767s will be in service for more than another 5 years. The 787's are not due to commence delivery until well into 2008, and the first deliveries are expected to go to JQ. So the current 763 fleet is not going to be retired for quite a few more years, but QF is not willing to invest in further upgrades at this time,

I am not sure if QF's 763s are capable of having Skybeds fitted. They could well be in a similar boat to the A330-200s that would require a floor strength upgrade to have them installed. And it would also mean a reduction in the number of seats on the aircraft as we saw with the 747 Skybed upgrades. So the current 25J seats would be reduced to 20 Skybeds, which would mean the change from 743 to 763 on the SYD-HNL route would mean a reduction from the current 52 J dreamtime seats to 20 J Skybeds. Its going to be bad enough dropping to 25 old dreamtimes, especially if it drops to less than daily!

Originally Posted by maninblack

Even AA is fixing up their 767 J class, not quite QF Skybeds, which QF could do in a 2-2-1 config but still an okay looking compact product I think being done in 2-2-2 by using very narrow armrests, which has to be better than what QF currently have and remember these QF 763's are flying long haul eg HNL, Manila, Japan, Korea etc. See "+titleText+"

As you may have gathered I am a regular traveller to HNL so these issues are of considerable interest to me.

AA's situation is even worse from a fleet perspective. They don't have an alternate aircraft on order, and are not in a financial position to place large orders any time soon. So they will need to continue with their 763s for international routes for considerably more than 5 years. And all of their international routes are under string competition from other airlines.

I am not saying I like the 767s on the route, but I understand why Qantas is making the move. But I do think they could upgrade the 763 dreamtime seats to the 747 pre-skybed standard (IFE was the only difference).