[kristo]

The rate as per the Air NZ site is 84 ff points to 1 australian airpoint dollar, so 30000 points is 357 airpoints. Smart Saver SYD to NZ is 418 ap dollars which is 17% reduction in benefits as I mentioned before.
The "cheapest fare" is not what frequent flyers expect, SMART usage of ff points means either using them at peak times eg School Holidays or on "special" offers where you get the same flight for 20% less points.
At least these are the ONLY times I have used my ff points.
These are not times when the "cheapest" air fares are offered.
I feel we should be careful not let media hype or Air NZ promotional wordings by an Air NZ exec distort or confuse the true and CORRECT mathematical calculations which I hope I have outlined.
Any more calculations /thoughts?

[Kiwifruit]

I take your point Kristo, but in reality how many times have you been able to redeem your points for travel at peak times or on school holidays? Under the old scheme this was particularly frustrating if there were more than one of you wanting to travel at the same time with only limited frequent flyer seats alloctated on each flight. Under the new regime at least you have the option of using more airpoint dollars to travel at those peak times or spend less points to travel at less popular times. The flexibility and covenience offered by the new system would seem to more than compensates for any slight dilution of value in the points (which i do not concede is necessarily the case) if I am able to use the points on any flight I choose.

Not saying you are wrong Kristo but rather pay a little more points-wise and fly when I want rather than tailor my itinerary dictated by availability of frequent flyer seats. I think its a brave move by ANZ to try something different and time will tell how sucessful it will be

[thadocta]

Yeah, what kiwifruit said.

Under the new scheme, you WILL be able to redeem AirBucks for a first class seat AKL-LHR next week IF there is a free seat available and you have the points. That is probably not an option under the old scheme. And so on and so on.

Dave

[kristo]

My point is basically though, that Air NZ airpoints is now at least 17% less value than QANTAS and probably most other major airlines at least in this region.
Would we be the ones to support this? I think not.
If we did then the purpose of this forum is defeated isnt it?
I mean if we do not learn from each other and learn not to support airlines/banks etc who reduce their benefits and try talking waffle, so to speak, to hide the truth we would not frequent this forum.
I take the point that Air NZ's new scheme would be mean more availability but at what cost, when there are other alternatives.

[Kiwifruit]

Kristo, I think this is a case where we will have to agree to disagree on the benefits v detriments of the new ANZ airpoint dollars system but lets not cloud the debate with misinformation and distortion of the facts. Your assertion that "that Air NZ airpoints is now at least 17% less value than QANTAS" is quite simply incorrect. As I mentioned in my earlier posting if you use your airpoint dollars against the cheaper fares offered by ANZ the reward levels are equivalent and in some case better than those presently available although of course this varies depending on route and what specials are offered by ANZ at any given time.

By way of your original example I have found on the ANZ website that you can presently purchase return flights SYD-CHC for AU$338 excluding taxes which even by your calculations is less than the 358 airpoint dollars you say correlates to 30,000 points presently required for such an award redemption. Of course you are going to pay more for peak time travel but these peak time flights are the very flights that it is very difficult (if not impossible) to obtain frequent flyer seats on under the present regime operated by most airline frequent flyer programmes.

As far as I can see there is no detriment to me posed by the new scheme but there are many advantages, for instance I will be able to use airpoint dollars on any ANZ flight, in any class so long as there are seats available to be purchased. Exactly how many points you will have to expend will depend on how flexible/organised you are when purchasing your ticket. An added bonus of the new system is that you can also use airpoint dollars to purchase one way tickets which will make your one way award redemption considerably cheaper than under the present system where the number of points required for one way travel is the same as for return flights.

I agree with you Kristo that we should be sceptical of promotional blurb put out by any organisation be it an airline, retailer or political party and we should have the impartiality and clarity of mind to critically analyse the facts for ourselves. However, lets not try and skew the debate by incorrectly stating the facts as that is a domain best left to politicians and their ilk and would defeat the purpose of this forum.

[kristo]

Kiwifruit, yes agree to disagree is fine, but to revisit the actual figures one can see that the $338 Syd to NZ airfare is out of school holidays and lands in Cchurch at 11.25pm.
My calculation of $418 is the average of all the Smart Saver airfares, keeping in mind these are generally the LOWEST airfares on the Air NZ website and have a no refund on cancellation policy as well as other restrictions, unlike ff points flights.
The tasman fully flexi is the only fare to offer refunds and it costs around $800.
The assumption that it is difficult or impossible to get ff seats in peak times like school holidays is partly true internationally but I personally have never had a problem as long as you plan and book in advance. But that is a different debate.
I am not trying to bag anyone but just ask that you consider comparing apples with apples so to speak. The figures are the facts.
In fact using the apples with apples principal the $800 fare is comparable with a ff ticket as far as refunds go, which makes the new Air NZ scheme closer to 100% less value than the current scheme or qantas ff.

[clifford]

Hi All,

I'm sorry that the doc feels that I am spreading misinformation. I agree that I am not a particular fan of either AirNZ or Qantas (even though I am a member of their FF programs), but this is purely because I feel they are rather miserly.

From the correspondence to date, I think the consensus (by a short head) is that the AirNZ changes are not for the better. Well, to me, it's rather academic because I don't see myself buying many AirNZ tickets in the future.

With my "3rd world" airline points, I can redeem an economy class ticket to anywhere in NZ (or elsewhere in the Pacific for that matter) for 20,000 miles. I don't know of any other airline (* excepted) that allows this.

Also, the earning rate on my ("3rd world") airline allows me to claim 3 such tickets with only one paid trip to Europe in discount economy. Dave may criticize me and my preferred airline, but the earning/redemption facts stand up for themselves.

Food for thought for those who think that the Qantas/AirNZ FF Programs are anything special.

And to show that I am reasonably (!) well balanced, I have just redeemed 2 Qantas awards, the first for two people from Canberra to Rockhampton for 40,000 miles (at what cost per mile?) and the second for one person from Sydney to Narita, also for 40,000 miles.

So, before I am written off as a master of Mis (Dis) information (and heaven knows what else) , I'd just like to ask the more clear thinking members to keep an open mind.

Best regards,
clifford.

[thadocta]

Ahhh, the master of disinformation speaks again.

I would like to say at the outset that I am absolutely NO fan of NZ. Firstly they are a memebr of the evil empire (aka Star Allianc), secondly what they did to Ansett was almost criminal.

Having said that though, too much emphasis is being placed on the earning side of the program. What our Master of Disinformation is seemingly ignoring is the redemption side of the changes, namely that if a seat is available for sale then it is also available for redemption.

EVERY FFP in the world has limits on the number of reward seats available - once they are gone you can wriggle and squirm, wih a bit of luck you might be able to get a seat released, but only if you are high status, otherwise you are out of luck.

The changes to the NZ FFP means that ALL seats are available for redemption through Airbucks, something our Master of Disinformation seems to be ignoring.

Sure, his redemption for a flight from CHC-SYD on the eve of a Bledislow Cup match at Homebush *might* be more expensive than what reward flights were previously, but at least he can still get a free flight which he wouldn't have been able to get under the old scheme.

Dave

[thadocta]

Originally Posted by clifford

With my "3rd world" airline points, I can redeem an economy class ticket to anywhere in NZ (or elsewhere in the Pacific for that matter) for 20,000 miles. I don't know of any other airline (* excepted) that allows this.

*IF* they have reward seats available. The plane might leave half full (or half-empty, depending on your POV) but if there are no reward seats available, then your 20K points are worth jack.

At least under the new scheme you can actually purchase any seat which is going at the currently prevailing fare.

Dave

[oz_mark]

THe problem for me is the non-flier fee which is coming in. Haven't used AirNZ of late, although other star alliance carriers I have. Might have to reconsider which program I am in,